>>3 最初に日本語が出来る癖に、日本国内で英語で話しかけて来る外人が悪いんだろ。 同じやり方で、対応してるだけじゃん? 英語で言う所のA taste of your/their/his/her own medicine的な対応の仕方です。
GoEnglish.com English Idioms http://www.goenglish.com/ATasteOfYourOwnMedicine.asp A Taste Of Your Own Medicine ( a lesson where other people treat you the same way you treat them in order to teach you that you are acting badly ... )
RE: Why won't they speak to us? - 12/19/2004 10:50:03 PM It's bad when a language exchange partner won't play ball but what I really take upmost offensive to is people in hospitals, shops, restrants (Japan spelling) replying to my OK Japanese in English. It's like I never said a word in Japanese.
On a side note, on occasions I've requested (read demanded) to be spoken to in Japanese people have taken further offensive and lept into turbo Japanese using all the triple negative statements they could lay a hand on. I think they were hoping I'd crack and beg for English. I make stuff up but not this, as this one time at the hospital my wife was with me and she said afterwards the doctor was speaking really weird Japanese as I refused to let him use his super duper English.
I anycase, starting tomorrow on behalf of us poor souls I'm going to fight back.
The solution is simplicity itself. When I speak Japanese and get English back I'm going to start speaking French! My french is only a handful of phrases but who will know. Then I'll pretend I don't understand English and demand they either speak French or Japanese.
Wonder if this will work on the wife? She's seen me speak English a few times now..hmm..
RE: Why won't they speak to us? - 12/20/2004 8:38:00 PM A couple of suggestions: 1) Even if the person you are speaking with will only speak English, only respond in Japanese - 100% Japanese. Stick to it, and often the other person will eventually give up and start speaking Japanese themselves. 2) Up the level of (English) conversation by asking questions that will cause the other person some serious stress, even after a short while. Never peep even one Japanese word (This is assuming they know that you are capable of speaking Japanese.), but instead be persistant with full-on English. Don't offer to paraphrase when the person looks confused, instead, look confused yourself, as if wondering why they haven't yet responded to your question regarding the recent Diet debate. Japanese people in general don't like it when a foreigner can speak Japanese apart from konnichiwa, etc. I think they feel like a part of their Japaneseness is being violated in some way As if only Japanese can and...
... should be able to speak Japanese. For the ones who speak no English, they don't have a choice but to listen to your Japanese, but the others... I've had many interesting and frustrating experiences during my time in Japan on this subject. Once, a waiter thought my wife (who is Japanese) was half Japanese, and pretended he couldn't understand what she was saying, and said everything at about half the normal speed and using extremely simple words, even though she was, of course, just speaking normal Japanese. I hate it most when someone pretends to not understand a word I've said, then repeats it with a totally different and awful pronunciation; similar to the "tobacco" and "tomato" incident someone wrote about earlier. A couple of times, after repeating the word myself, and the other person going throught the same act, our eyes met, and without saying anything, they knew that I knew they were just pretending not to understand. Both times, this was followed by serious blushing on their part. Very strange.
RE: Why won't they speak to us? - 12/19/2004 11:03:09 PM Why won't they speak to us? The answer to your question is really quite simple. But unless someone tells you the answer (like I am about to) it might take you many years of living in nippon to figure it out for yourself.. (Like it did me )
The answer is...... Because they (most nipponese) don't want to believe that a lowly gaijin (you and me) could ever master their "most unique and perfect language"... Therefore they will speak to you in English ("that simpleton language that only has 26 letters in it's alphabet." ) .. Because if they speak to you in Engrish (no matter how broken) they can make believe that you can not speak the language of the "Rising Sun"...
Anyway I've just learned to let it go... I chose to let them speak all the Engrish they want and I just reply in nipponese I really like telling them "hey I can't really understand what the hell you're saying in Engrish so what do ya say we speak Japanese??"
Addendum: Anybody else out there ever notice the way that if you go out somewhere with a Japanese friend, wife, husband, girlfriend, boyfriend, or what ever, and you come into contact (like at a restaurant or hotel) with another Japanese, they will always address the Japanese person you are with and not you... Even if you speak to them first they will try and ignore you and focus on your Japanese partner..
What's up with that??? Never mind. I know what's up..
Why won't they speak to us? - 12/19/2004 10:18:26 PM Last week I put an ad in the classifieds section for J/E language exchange. I met 5 people and NONE of them would speak Japanese despite the clearly established purpose of the meeting. I've come to expect it in daily life here but this is getting ridiculous. It was supposed to be an EXCHANGE. It was so frustrating because my Japanese was so much better than their English.
So do any of you foreigners that live in Japan actually converse in Japanese on a regular basis? Does anybody actually interact with the locals? I've gotten rid of ALL of my Japanese friends because of this snobbishness (perhaps that's the wrong noun but I don't know what other word I couuld use). My Japanese is so much better than any of my Japanese 'friends' English but we always have stunted conversations because of their insistence on using English all the time. Then they have the audacity to consistenly translate what anyone else is saying even though I long ago understood on my own. I try to explain the concept of a balanced relationship, the idea of give and take and mutual respect etc. but they just do not get it. I've tried to embrace this language and culture but what the @#$% ? I'm ready to throw in the towel and go home. I mean what the heck is the point of studying this language if you can never use it? Anybody got thoughts on this?
RE: Why won't they speak to us? - 12/29/2004 7:53:56 PM This would really piss me off if I was going to stay here for a long time.
I just talked to an American and French guy I live with and they pretty much agreed with everything people have said.
They both said a lot of Japanese people really have a strong us Vs them attitude and really do think forigners are unable to fully grasp being able to use Japanese.
Interesting. Its never bothered me in two years but thats probably because I have never made a really big effort to impropve my Japanese.
I can guarantee this attitude would really piss me off if I was serious about living in Japan long term
Why Japanese insist on speaking English 2004/12/28 Hi, I've been working in Japan for around 4 years now, after 3 years here I returned to the UK and worked at a Japanese company in the UK for 2 years, then returned to Japan last year.
Anyway, my Japanese is pretty good, with my girlfriend we speak mostly Japanese unless she needs to learn a new English word.
Unfortunately, I work in a junior high school teaching English. So naturally I speak only English during class time.
But whats up with the Japanese people that insist on speaking English to foriegners?? Why do Japanese people who see a white face insist on assuming that that person can only speak Japanese? And even when the foriegner replies to their questions in Japanese, and it is obvious that his/her Japanese is better than the Japanese persons broken English, why do they continue to persist in persevering in trying to communicate in English?
Are Japanese people just selfish..I don't know. When I used to study at a Japanese language school in Fukuoka, I was actually told by one of the other Japanese students who was studying English at the same school that I must speak only speak English.(When I didn't even know the guy and just responded to some dumb basic question of his in Japanese) The same thing happened at a bar, when I was told by another Japanese that I must speak English!! Pah! I'm sorry but surely in Japan people should speak Japanese? I expect people to speak English when the they are in the UK.. Bizarrely I actually spoke more Japanese when I worked in the UK, than I do now.. selfish hmmm.
2004/12/28 I only lived in Japan for a little more than 6 months and will be moving back this summer. My experience there wasn't nerely as long as yours, but I feel as though my time there and what I did while abroad justifies my opinions. I speak fairly decent Japanese and lived in an apartment in Shinjuku with another gajin who speaks fluently. Whenever a plumber or other Japanese person came to our apartment they always seemed shocked to first, see gajin living in a non-gajin area of the city, and second, that we could speak Japanese to him. Many of my gajin peers were consistently offended whenever Japanese tried to speak only english to them....
Although, with that said, it is a very ethnocentric county, and regardless of what has been said in other threads, many (particularly male) Japanese do believe Americans are dumb. Although prejudice does work both ways. I'm biased though, I live in a diverse city in Ameican in a very diverse ethnic neigborhood where prejudice isn't such a blantantly obvious issue. I do realize many asians are made fun of due to their broken english here in America, and often many new Asian Americans I meet assume all of us Americans will do the same. It saddens me though. But because of the enviroment where I grew up, I just didn't see or experience personally....
... But in Japan, having worked closely with producers at NHK and speaking with many people on a very personal level, I found that a large portion of Japan strongly believe an American can never truly grasp their language and are deeply offended when Americans mess up while trying to speak Japanese. Despite their humble appearence, it's a very prideful nation, too prideful in many ways. America can be agrued the same, but once again, I live in a city paranoid and angry at our government. it is true though, while I can speak basic Japanese, it'll be years upon years before I fully master it. I've had Japanese men tell me to never speak their language again because I've massacred the pronounciation and insulted their culture by doing so. And it is insulting and demeaning to be told so. But of all the more nastier things I've encountered during my wonderful time in Japan, this issue bothered me the least. It was something I just got accustomed to. These are the s acrifices to living in minimally diverse country, particularly compared to my otaku/evil white man stature I have for merely having a Japanese girlfriend. I'd much prefer a silly old man looking down at me for not speaking his language perfectly than insulting me to my face for dating a woman of his country.
11/20/2002 5:35:31 PM A friend of mine (Japanese girl) told me that her and most of her friends think that gaijin guys who speak japanese very well are " kimochi warui" (gross). She said that it is much better for a foreign guy to speak english and maybe only a few japanese words with a japanese girl. According to her, even if he can speak japanese well, he should pretend that he doesn' t. She mentioned that this is probably true mostly for girls that speak at least a word or two of english. Maybe not true for girls who don' t speak any english... Either way.... I' m a bit confused by this... i wonder if it' s just her and her group of friends or is this pretty common? what do you think....
Well I can echo some of the comments here too, One experience I had with that while I was in Japan, was when myself and a gaijin woman English teacher that I was staying with for a time, had in the Kansai area. I'm black(so not all foreigners are hakujin ) and she was white. We were going uphill towards this area that was jampacked with people going on their way as well as the occasional bus or car or such that was rambling on the road. We were just coming back from eating at one of the various outdoor restaurants that were there and going on the road when suddenly an old guy with his wife warned from in back of us in Japanese: "Hey you! You should walk towards the side of the road. There's a car coming behind." We turned around to look at him, and we caught him saying, "Oh it's useless. They are foreigners. They cannot understand," shaking his head at his wife while walking away. We walked towards the side of the road and thanked him for warning us. He looked suprised that we actually understood him and not to mention, a little embarrassed, bowing at us as well. He didn't know that the gaijin English teacher I was with already lived in Japan for 7 years and was completely fluent, and while I never lived there and wasn't fluent yet, I was proficient enough to get by.
Another example was something the English teacher I was with relayed to me. She was sitting down one time reading at a local coffee shop when a Japanese woman suddenly asked from behind her how to get to a certain location. First you gotta know that this English teacher has brownish red- curly hair and is petite as well. Not to mention the fact that many Japanese girls are coloring their hair that brownish tinge, so this all adds up to the Japanese woman thinking she was talking to another fellow Japanese. Anyways, she (the English teacher) turned around and started giving the directions in Japanese. You can just imagine the expression on that other woman's face! Purportedly, she started saying "Sumimasen" like there was no tomorrow all the while bowing and inching away.. Apparently she didn't even get the directions, just left in mortification.
However.. about the restaurant thing. I think we have different experiences on that. Whenever I was with Japanese people when I went to a restaurant, while it was true that the waiters when explaining what they had to our group usually looked to the Japanese people more than me, they still expected me to say my own order to them. Almost every single restaurant I went to with one other person, I ordered my own food and drinks directly to the waiter, without needing a redundant second translation. The only one where it wasn't so was this one Italian restaurant in Hirakata I think. Also when we were in a group of 3 or more, usually one person from our group asked us beforehand what we wanted (including what the other Japanese in our group wanted), and then ordered for everyone. However whenever I was only with one other person in a restaurant, I always ordered for myself and the waiters got the orders fine.
I'm thinking that most of the people who have these problems from the sounds of it are in the very big cities, perhaps many in the Kanto region. I was in the Kansai region and many times people there expected me to speak or understand Japanese. Especially in the rural areas such as Iga- Ueno village, and suprisingly in places like Hirakata (where Kansai Gaidai is) and Nara. The restaurants and the people there expected me to understand Japanese from my own experience. I'm thinking Tokyo and places like that have such a large gaijin population that can't speak Japanese that they've created a barrier for those gaijin who can speak the language and are living in those parts. Though I haven't went to the Kanto region, I'm thinking you would have a better time in the Kansai region, though that's a guess. I think if you want to practice Japanese, perhaps go to more of the rural areas, or places where people who don't speak English are at, to echo some of the comments earlier. In my opinion, they are the most open minded people and they can teach you alot.
イエール大、日本の犯罪者の三分の二は、在日と部落民。 ここに書いて有る通り、日本ではタブー視されてる題材なので、この研究をしたのはアメリカ人。 Yale University Research Today almost two-thirds of burakumin (pronounced boo-RAH-koo-min) say in opinion polls that they have never encountered discrimination. About 73 percent now marry non-burakumin, and most dismiss the possibility that the Japanese police might treat burakumin unfairly. Social workers say crime is a disproportionate problem among young burakumin, but the issue is so sensitive that no Japanese scholars have conducted research on it. One rare statistical study, conducted by Americans in the 1960's, found that burakumin youths were three times as likely as non-buraku youths to be arrested for crimes. In the buraku of Kobe, the nicest houses -- gaudy American-style homes with wide porches and Mercedes-Benzes in the driveway -- belong to yakuza bosses. As a result, the "success stories" whom children in the buraku see as they grow up are often mobsters. http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache:nJz9zapwtEEJ:research.yale.edu/wwkelly/restricted/Japan_journalism/NYT_951130.htm+buraku+yakuza+&hl=ja
SC (shopping center) nuclear store stays ..independent store in suburbs terminal.. abounding for 35 years Tamagawa Takashimaya since then of the establishment in November, 1969 in 30 shops or less though the one that seems to be the suburbs department store counts 40 shops as even Marui and Robinson include it (..inside.. car access subject SC : only by ten shops). If the leading move case and PDS (popular Promorshonaldepartomentostoa = department store) of a local department store are excluded, there are a lot of small stores up to about 20,000 Hiracome, and a large-scale discount house and no great difference are the realities in the large area ability to pull in more customers. Therefore, the sales results are not accompanied, cut-down in sales by the large-scale SC establishment rush in recent years join, and recognition 'The profit cannot be taken in the suburbs department store' is established.
The under of the large-scale SC development boom since the Large-Scale Retail Stores Location Law enforcement in June, 2000 is still slack, and heavy also in the major developer's ardent solicitation the waist of the department store at the development opportunity of the suburbs department store.
1. President Saruhashi pumped 11. 2 million dollars US into the Unification Church in Korea in 2003. Some of this money, if not all, went to the 'Moonies'. I don't know all the details but enough of them to post them here
2. Big trouble with lawsuits and potential lawsuits with publishing companies, particularly Oxford University Press and maybe a couple of others (depending on who made 'Word by Word')
3. The end of the no socialising clause which WILL happenb in December. There will be lawsuits
4. A potentially huge problem with a harrassment case in Osaka.
http://www.ghettocitiesclothing.com/hustle.html http://www.ghettocitiesclothing.com/photos3.html How to hustle Japanese girls Here are some ways to save yourself 75.00 or more dollars, get sex, get gifts, get free food, drinks, whatever you could ever want and during it all not have the girl be pissed off (which is the most imporant pay-off because once your capable of having a steady flow of hustling you are totally set for life.) "I Lost my wallet," con artistry This year, summer 2003, I was pretty much dependant on it, I wanted to see if it was possible to somehow go to Japan and survive for 23 days with a buget of 200.00 (two-hundred American dollars.) tell the Japanese girls I met, girls I've been with before and contacts that, "I lost my wallet on the train." It worked to say the least, every single day I'd have girls pay for my train-tickets so that I could go skate, then they'd pay for lunch and whatever else i'd get during that time, I'd return to my friends house, call up a different girl, go out to dinner, then after either drinks at the restaurants or going to a nightclub we'd then go to a love-hotel (all in which was paid for,) This was a great con because I didn't have to say things like, "I'll pay you back," or "I only brought so much," because they assumed I didn't have a wallet at all and when they noticed I did have money I told them my friends were loaning me money so that I could have train money to go see (the person who was questioning my money.) It worked out great though, I'd meet girls at nightclubs, hang out with them and two days later I'd tell them the same thing
http://www.ghettocitiesclothing.com/hustle.html http://www.ghettocitiesclothing.com/photos3.html How to hustle Japanese girls Here are some ways to save yourself 75.00 or more dollars, get sex, get gifts, get free food, drinks, whatever you could ever want and during it all not have the girl be pissed off (which is the most imporant pay-off because once your capable of having a steady flow of hustling you are totally set for life.) "I Lost my wallet," con artistry This year, summer 2003, I was pretty much dependant on it, I wanted to see if it was possible to somehow go to Japan and survive for 23 days with a buget of 200.00 (two-hundred American dollars.) tell the Japanese girls I met, girls I've been with before and contacts that, "I lost my wallet on the train." It worked to say the least, every single day I'd have girls pay for my train-tickets so that I could go skate, then they'd pay for lunch and whatever else i'd get during that time, I'd return to my friends house, call up a different girl, go out to dinner, then after either drinks at the restaurants or going to a nightclub we'd then go to a love-hotel (all in which was paid for,) This was a great con because I didn't have to say things like, "I'll pay you back," or "I only brought so much," because they assumed I didn't have a wallet at all and when they noticed I did have money I told them my friends were loaning me money so that I could have train money to go see (the person who was questioning my money.) It worked out great though, I'd meet girls at nightclubs, hang out with them and two days later I'd tell them the same thing