【和英】 JP/ENG info-trade 【言語交換】 ch.2

This thread is for learners of English and Japanese to ask questions
and share information in English. Advanced learners of English can
ask native speakers questions about difficult grammar and expressions
and help them learn Japanese in exchange. Posting in Japanese is
allowed but English is preferred.

英語を学ぶ日本人と、日本語を学ぶ外国人がお互いに情報を交換し合うスレッドです。
英語の難解な文法や表現などについてネイティヴスピーカーに質問させてもらうかわりに
彼らの日本語学習の手助けをしていきましょう。日本語での書き込みも不可ではありませんが
ネイティヴスピーカーの方に理解し易いよう、出来るだけ英語でお願い致します。

previous thread:
Info-exchange]Discuss EnglishJapanese learning (part 1)
http://academy5.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/english/1144647075/

http://academy5.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/english/1144647075/999 title too long

I shorten and replace, process being distressing.
OTL

>>2
Good job.

I know what you mean. If a title is too long, 2ch doesn't accept it
and require you to change it shorter, right?
Anyway, thumbs up to you, >>1

For your information, Anonymous American, 言語交換 doesn't sound natural.
it must be word for word translation of language exchange. ^^

>>3
たぶん変な漢字の使い方だと思いましたから、前スレッドで
「どうぞ直してください」と言いました。まぁ、このタイトルは
英語も日本語もちょっとおかしくて、外国語の間違いの交換
ですね。それも言語の交換なので、このスレは最初から
成功だったんでしょうね。

皆さん、今回もよろしくお願いします。

相変わらず日本語うまいな。

こちらこそよろしく。

>>3
Please make next thread title better.

for people who not know before: ch. is short for chapter

>>1
Thankf for making this thread.

So I want to ask something.
That is how to use "make". I noticed that "make" is used like "make to do
something", but my dictionary(mainly for learners of American English) doesn't tell me about the usage.
I guess from the context I encoutered that this "make" sounds almost like "try", I mean,
"make to do something" is interchangeable with "try to do something".
Put me right if I'm mistaken. Thank you.

>>7
In a similar context, they aren't interchangeable. For example,
"try to eat" 「食べてみる」is not the same as "make to eat"
「たべなきゃ」「ごめん、日本人じゃないそれから、それの日本語は
たぶん氏がう」"Make to do something" is probably closer to "force
to do something".

I have a question about English grammar.

1) It's what I believe that's right.
2) It's what I believe is right.

What defference is there between the sentences above?
What part does "that" in the first sentence play?
Any explanation will be appreciated.

Ah, another question came to me.
When I read a book, someone in it says "what say you?", and
I wondered if it's a shorter way of saying "what do you say?".
Am I correct?

Which one of those is used more often in everyday conversation?

>>9
1は「私が信じることが正しいのだ」って意味です。
「私が信じることしか正しくない」ってニュアンスもあります。
２は「それは私が正しいと信じることだ」って意味です。
（日本語の間違いがあれば、すみません）
１にthatがある理由は、cleft constructionが使われた
からです。　文章の元は、「What I believe is right」と言う
のです。「Apples are red」って「It's apples that are red」に
変わりと同じです。もっとcleftingのことを読みたいなら、
この記事を読んでください。

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clefting

>>10
You are correct.

"What do you say?" is much more common.

>>10
I'll answer this one in English because the part of my brain that processes
Japanese needs to rest.

They do indeed mean the same thing, but "What say you?" sounds
archaic. You would only use it as a set phrase or when trying to
evoke an older form of English. "What do you say?" is what's
generally said in everyday conversation.

>>10 What book are you reading? It sounds like old English. Yes you are correct.

'what say you' isn't used often, unless you're trying to draw attention to yourself, because no one uses it anymore.
Example: You ask someone something and they don't answer; you would say 'What say you?' to get them to say something in response.

>>11
Thank you very much! Now I understand what that "that" is used for.
I've never heard of the terminology, Cleft conjunction,
but I'm sure I was taught how to use the "it・・・that" structure.
We call it 強調構文. But I didn't notice that. Well, I think I can
tell them apart now. Thanks again.:)

Ah, not to dwell on this, but what do you think about "that" which's used
in the sentence below?

"What do you play that needs practicing?"

Instinctively, I think this sentence consists of "what do you play?" and
"it needs practicing", but we aren't usually taught this grammar
item at school. This "that" shouldn't be cleft conjunction.
I mean, it must be "relative clause" ( I just looked up the terminology in an
online dictinary). But as I said, I'm not sure if I'm right.

>>12
Thanks for the info.

>>13
I see. Maybe I won't use it myself.

>>14
Thanks. It's Harry Potter. In book 6, when Scrimgeour the Minister of Magic
pay a visit to Harry at Burrow, he used this expression.
Oh, and I remembered it also used in Lord of the rings(movie).
Yeah, your explanation fits.

>>16
なるほど。いつも読まなかった。

もちろん合うんだよ。lol

>>15
As you guessed, it's a relative clause. If you change the question into
a statement, it's a little more clear: "You play something that needs
practicing." Here, it's obvious that "that needs practicing" is simply
a relative clause modifying "something." In the original sentence,
it modifies "what," but since "what" is moved to the front of the
sentence it's no longer obvious what's happening grammatically.
I hope this helps.

>>16
Yeah. As for me, I've read Harry Potter again and again,
first time, to enjoy the story, and after that, to pick up
English expressions. It's like a gold mine of information
to me. hehe

>>18
It helps a lot! I think I can use this grammar with some confidence!
I'm sure you will make a good teacher if you come here to teach English.
Thank you.

Hello. May I ask a question again?

1)What's on the desk?
2)What's there on the desk?

What differences are there between those 2 sentences?
Please tell me about the impressions you get from each of them respectively.

Does "we are of one mind" mean "we have the same opinion"?

Does this thread no longer function?

I just wanted to know why "play THE guitar" is OK while "play A guitar"
is not Ok.

Since when will 2ch become unavailable?

>>23
I have no idea, but they say it would have been a week or so ago.
So I think it was just a joke.

>>24
I see. Thanks for the info. I'm a bit releaved.
Still, I suspect there's something more in this issue.

>>25
What is it that you suspect will happen to 2ch?

>>26
Well, no, I don't know. What I wanted to say was there was
someone behind the scean who could make money, or who spread
the rumor for gain.

>>27
Interesting point of view. But we have more pressing and bigger
problem which has a lot to do with 2ch, or Internet users.
TBS, or one of the biggest TV stations in Japan, is putting big
pressure to creat a law that might rid us of freedom of speeck
on the Internet.

>>28
I have never heard about it. Is it a romor also?

>>29
You're right. But it seems true.

>>30
Thanks. There are hundreds of webpages about this, I found out.

>>31
That's right. To put it more precisely, a subsidiary TBS created
is being active about this according to one of those websites.

>>32
Thanks again. But this doesn't seem known to most Japanese.
Mass Media would never report it on TV.

>>33
Sadlly, no, it's not. But I'm sure at the point when the law is
passed, the news will be spread if 2ch is still up and running.
hahaha.

2ch is a phoenix

>>35
By that you mean, even if 2ch is closed, there will be another
2ch type of system online, I understand.

this thread is looks very good as much as i havenot ever seen.

above sentense is correct?

>>37
What?
You might want to say that like
"This thread seems as good as I thought it would be."

Did you know a famous voice actor who played Tenshinhan, Siryu, and Bright,
died?

Please tell me who is murderer in this stoy, and also motive.

http://www.learner.org/exhibits/literature/story/fulltext.html

>>40
The butler did it.

>>20
The sentences are basically the same. I think the second sentence
could indicate a particular part of the desk or thing on the desk
if "there" is said with emphasis.

>>21
Yes.

>>22
"I play the guitar" means that you play guitars in general, and
doesn't mean you play a specific guitar. When talking about
what musical instrument you can play, you generally use "the,"
as in "I play the piano" or "I play the trombone." You can also
leave it out, as in "I play piano." If you said "I play a guitar" it would
imply that there is a specific guitar that you play. This might be
correct to say in some contexts.

Tottanokayo!!

URGENT REQUEST!

ライデンで日本語の勉強をして学生です。

日本語の対話の試験がとっても間もなく来る。

僕に話を教えてくれる日本人が探している。

速く僕にメールして下さい。

お願いします。

I have only 2 days left!

がんばれ〜 never give up.I can correct your Japanese
ライデンで日本語の勉強をして(る）学生です。
日本語の対話の試験が（とっても・・Can't connect with Adverb)間もなく来る。
僕に話を教えてくれる日本人が(を）探している。
速く僕にメールして下さい。
お願いします。

ok, i will retry! 一所懸命！


ライデンで日本語の勉強をしてる学生です。

日本語の対話の試験が間もなく来る。

僕に話を教えてくれる日本人を探している。

速く僕にメールして下さい。

お願いします。

今はいいなの？

とにかく、誰もメールしてくれ〜

手伝って〜

I speak 英語, フランス語 and オランダ語 fluent, i could help you with those and some ドイツ語 too.

Good!!Perfect!!
We can have a lesson on 2ch.
Please introduce yourself in Japanese.
We can correct your Japanese.
Writing makes your Japanese improved.

でも、writingを行使するが要らなって、speakingを行使するがとても要る。

話の試験ですよ。

あ〜そうか。
行使はLittle formal or rather businness ..
so you can say instead
Writingを使う必要はなくって
Speakingを使うのがとても重要です。
or
Writingの技術はいらなくって
Speakingの技術がいるんだ。

＞＞５０

どうも。

けど、「Writingの技術はいらなくってSpeakingの技術がいるんだ」は
「I don't need writing, but speaking skill」が意味ですかな？

うんうん。

どうも。

tripcodeがテイクした。

でも、まだ役立つのひっきこもりを探してる。日本の話し相手が☆い…

>>46
Sectum Sempra!!!

Sekihan Tempura!!!

>>53
Avada Kedavra!!!

>>42
Thank you. I didn't know "play piano" sounds Ok.

*sigh*

for those learning Japanese

日本語の発音はとても簡単です。
母音の数も子音の数も少ないですし、またその組み合わせも単純だからです。

動詞，形容詞，形容動詞の活用を覚えれば、あとは語彙を増やし、語法を覚えていくだけです。
また、英語などの欧米諸語の語彙においては動詞が中心ですが、日本語の場合 名詞が中心となっています。
なので、日本語の学習においては、名詞を中心に語彙を増やす方が効率的です。

漢字の学習は、これらの作業と並行して適度に行えばいいでしょう。
日本語を学ぶ際に、最初 漢字を学ぶことをとても難しく感じるでしょうが、それは表面的な問題です。
漢字は、日本語を習得する過程においては、それほど中心的な役割を担っていません。

漢字をこと細かく覚えるよりも、助詞の細やかな意味と用法を身に付ける方が有益です。

母音　　／ボイン　　：vowel
子音　　／シイン　　：consonant
語彙　　／ゴイ　　　：vocabulary
動詞　　／ドウシ　　：verb
形容詞　／ケイヨウシ：adjective
活用　　／カツヨウ　：(only in this case) conjugation

>>59
>漢字は、日本語を習得する過程においては、それほど中心的な役割を担っていません。

But don't you need to know some 2,000 kanji and their combinations to be able to
read newspapers?

>>61
漢字を２０００字程度しか知らない初学者には新聞を読むことを勧めません。
あまりに非効率的だからです。

>>61
その程度の初学者ならば語彙を増やすことを学習の中心に据えるべきです。（据える／スエル：place, lay, set）
それでも読書を通じて日本語の学習がしたいのならば、
漢字にルビがふられている本を読むことをお勧めします。（漢字にルビをふる：print KANA alongside KANJI）

What the heck is the bottom-right character in this picture? http://www.hidebehind.com/49587F60
I can't even figure out what radical that's supposed to be. (剛柔流 大修 are pretty obvious - but the writing style is terrible.)

>>59
まずはそれをぜんぶひらがなにするところから
やりなおそうぜ。

Could it be 館 - I know, it takes some imagination!!

>>59
English is not that "verb-oriented" language.
That's what I recently realized.
English is, particularly in colloquialism, "adverb/preposition-
oriented." Adverbs and prepositions so often have the quality of
verbs, particularly in phrasal verbs which are commonly built up
with a main verb and a preposition or and adverb.
The sentence like "I'm through" could mean "I finished" where
"through" is more like a verb than preposition in terms of the
actual meaning that it bear.
On the other hand, Japanese phrasal verbs usually consist of
a few verbs where the proceeding verbs takes "RenYouKei."
hikkaku could be pulled into parts "hiku" and "kaku"
motteku could be "Motsu" and "iku"
One of the clue to learn Native-like English might be to master
the usage of prepositions and adverbs having the quality of verbs.

>>66
That was my thought; in googling for those two phrases, 館 and 会 are the only common characters after 大修 - but 館 doesn't look anything like the weird character that's there. (But I can't read 篆書体, either.)

>>67
I appreciate you, but...

基本動詞と前置詞の組み合わせからなる句動詞の機微というのは、確かにとらえづらく難しいですね。
まるで、日本語の助詞の妙に触れるようです。

しかしながら、>>59で述べた英語は動詞が中心であるというのは、
日本語においては副詞と動詞の組み合わせで表すような表現の多くが、
英語においては動詞１語で表されることを表しているのです。

例えば、日本語の「笑う」という語一つをとってもそうですね。

動詞 ／ ドウシ ： verb
助詞 ／ ジョシ ： postpositional particle
副詞 ／ フクシ ： adverb
前置詞 ／ ゼンチシ ： preposition
句動詞 ／ クドウシ ： phrasal verb

機微 ／ キビ ： subtlety, nuance
妙 ／ ミョウ ： (in this case) daedal, the art of experience

>>69
ひらがな変換しましょう。

動詞 ／ どうし
助詞 ／ じょし
副詞 ／ ふくし
前置詞 ／ ぜんちし
句動詞 ／ くどうし

機微 ／ きび
妙 ／ みょう

基本 ／ きほん
組み合わせ ／ くみあわせ
確かに ／ たしかに
難しい ／ むずかしい
触れる ／ ふれる
中心 ／ ちゅうしん
表す ／ あらわす
表現 ／ ひょうげん
笑う ／ わらう

金田一春彦という国語学者は、国語辞典の編纂で著名です。
彼の著書である『日本語』において、彼は、

日本語は、語彙を２万語以上覚えないと文章の９割以上を理解できるようにはならないのに対し、
欧米の言語は、５０００語も覚えればその域に達する。

と説いています。
このお話は極端ではありますが、ともかく、
漢字の パターン(patterns) を分析するだけではなく、語彙の増強に努めましょう。


金田一　春彦 ／ きんだいち　はるひこ （人名 ／ じんめい）
国語学者 ／ こくごがくしゃ ： Japanese linguist
国語辞典 ／こくご じてん ： Japanese dictionary
編纂 ／ へんさん ： compilation
著名 ／ ちょめい
著書 ／ ちょしょ
語彙 ／ ごい ： vocabulary, words
文章 ／ ぶんしょう
理解 ／ りかい
欧米 ／ おうべい
域 ／ いき
説く ／ とく
極端 ／ きょくたん
分析 ／ ぶんせき
増強 ／ ぞうきょう

日本語での書き込みも不可ではありませんが
ネイティヴスピーカーの方に理解し易いよう、出来るだけ英語でお願い致します。

×：ネイティヴスピーカー
〇：非日本語話者

>>73
了解しました。

スラングなんですが教えてください。

son of the bitch

これは一般的にどういう意味で使われてるんですか？

I have a question.

When asked if they can go drink, why do native speakers say,
"I have plans", but not "I have a plan."?
What's different between plans and a plan in such a context?

I hope this thread still functions...

>>76
先生とか上司に使うと怒られるよw

>>77
I am not a native speaker so wether you gonna take my massage
seriously or not, but when you say,"a plan" it seems you have a
clear plan to do, or you are sure you are going to do.
When you use "plans" others know you don't feel like today to go out.
Also,"plans" dosen't show specific ones. That would be a reason to refuse it.
This is my opinion...so, what do you think Native Speakers?

>>77

'Plans' is used because it is more vague and general than 'plan'.

If you say 'I have a plan,' it sounds very much like you are literally
planning to do something in particular, like you have schemes.

But 'plans' is very general, and non-specific.

There is not much more difference. It is a confusing topic, even for me,
a native speaker. すみませんでした __( o . o )__

>>80
Thank you for coming! I was kinda worrying about my explaining.
I hope I could explain part of the idea...
Oh, I tell you one thing, you don't have to say sorry cause it works
a lot for us!!

>>79-80
I thank both of you.

Sibling thread, Please help us!

Somebody, please make part 83 of chat in English! Previus part was named 81, but was 82 - double post of 81 - so name needs to be right now.
Template here!:

Chat in English (英語で雑談) Part 83
---

∧＿∧
( ´･ω･) Let's have some tea and chat!
( つ旦O　∫　∫　∫　∫　∫　∫　∫
と＿)＿)　旦　旦　旦　旦　旦　旦　旦

Previous thread:
Chat in English (英語で雑談) Part 82 -incorrectly named 81-
http://academy6.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/english/1174639988/

Hello, I'm from Germany. I need a translation of this text, but my japanese skill is too bad :( Maybe you can help? I don't fully understand it, but it is important to know what it means.

思ってるけど先におくってもいいかママに聞いてほしいです。

Thanks a lot in advance!