175.Cho Cheol Hyun ([email protected].) I am a Corean. You know @` Korean deliver kumdo to nihonjin more than a thousand years ago. but@` korean kumdo could not prosper in chosun dynasty. I m so angry. I know so many samurai grew kumdo. And nihonjin fixed a modern kendo. I pay tribute to your kendo. I like a kumdo(kendo). And some time I wish learn kendo in japan.
日本刀に興味があるのはいいけど、ちょっとありがた迷惑ね。 皇紀まで知ってどうするねん。 http://www.meiboku.demon.co.uk/guide/index.htm Emperor Jimmu JIMMU (660 - 585 BCE)@` who was the first emperor of Japan. a Jimmu date of 2590 = (2590 - 660) = 1930 CE
「剣道の心」は海外にまでひろがってるのかな。返答者は相当の教養人だが。 http://messages.clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/kendoforall/bbs?action=mtid=kendoforallsid=12173294&mid=188 kumdo/kendo AdidasViva (??/F/Northern Virginia) 1/30/00 8:59 pm hello. I'm relatively new to Kendo. I have been researching on Kendo for a few days@` and I was wondering if there are any differences between kumdo and kendo? the closest kendo class around my area teaches korean kumdo. I'm very interested in taking it. how much is a lesson too? thanks http://messages.clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/kendoforall/bbs?action=mtid=kendoforallsid=12173294&mid=189 Re: kumdo/kendo The_Ivory_Shogun (29/M/Tulsa@` OK) 2/2/00 10:12 am Adidas: Welcome. Your question is a very good one. Generally speaking the differences between Kendo and Kumdo are minute. There are some very subtle differences in etiquette and obviously the terminoligy is different because of the difference in languange. Other than that the differences will depent greatly on the instructor. I would say that if you want to learn Kendo and your only source teaches Kumdo you should just go for it. Check out the school first to make sure that you can work with the teacher but otherwise I wouldn't worry about the differences between the two arts. Hope that helps. With Honor@` The Ivory Shogun
花郎館に新たな書き込み。2chVSKumdoを見てた人がいたようだ。 呼んでもいいかい>Masahikoさん。 http://pluto.beseen.com/boardroom/m/49500/View?n=00133 Bongook Kumbup M. M.McGuire 11:42 pm sunday june 25@` 2000 I am looking for a more complete history of this form. where did it come from. when did it show up. why are the stances and strike named such. thank you.
日本剣道協会に腹が立ってきた。 剣道の心とか抜かす前に剣道の名称 にこだわれよ。KENDOという表音の部分で 主張しないと、WAY OF SWORD って事で ヨーロッパやアラブもみんな剣道を直訳して オレたちにも剣道があると言えるんだぜ。 イギリス人にKENDOという名称は使わなく良い WAY OF SWORDと読んで下さいと言ってるようなもの。
漢字は表意文字だって事に気付けよ。空手だったら それで一語になってるからまだ良かった。 拳道とかいう名だったら韓国側はテコンドーを創始せずに 拳道をハングル読みしてまたHISTORY OF 拳道と やったに違いあるまい。
>117 Lenyaさん、来てくれましたね。大歓迎です。 私はYahoo板では勝ってにこのスレの広報官の役割をやってますんで、 あそこでへたなこと書くとここでけちょんけちょんにやられてしまい ますから。つい書き方が演説調になってしまいます。私のカキコは議 論を誘発するようなものではなかったですね、反省。 ここからは2chモード。 57のYahoo板Lenya氏情報のまとめはあれで良かったですかね? 99の'剣道'という用語は中国から出たもので'一書道聞知併記であり'に '剣道38篇'イランものがその嚆矢だ。けれどもこの用語は体育的実体で は使用されられなかったし'剣道'この今日剣道の母胎になったものだ、 とありますが、この中国の書は何だか知ってますか?日本では阿部立 剣道ってのが最古なんですか、なるほど。韓国人は漢字の特性を悪用 して剣道の指し示す範囲を意図的に広げることをしてますね。そうし ないと韓国内で普及できなかった事情は分からなくもないけどね。 国際柔道連盟(IJF)の規約第1条http://www.kodokan.org/e_basic/history.html 『"Judo"@` which is now exercised in many countries of the world@` is the very Kodokan Judo@` created in 1882 by Prof. Jigoro Kano. It is clearly stated in the Article 1 of International Judo Federation (IJF) statutes@` "IJF recognizes 'Judo' which was created by Jigoro Kano."』 これに相当するのはIKFには無いのかなあ、Kumdoって英語表記 を禁じて欲しいね。KumdoサイトではKumdoは剣道の韓国語発音と言っ てみたり、KumdoとKendoは違うんだと言ってみたりで、意図的して 混乱を生じさせようとしてるようにも感じられる。Kendoと違うなら Kumdoではなくまさに「本国剣法」と言えばいいのにね。パンチだか ケリだか相手の竹刀を取るだかのルールがあるみたいだが、袴はかず にやってくれ。袴はかないと、防具つけたら様にならないけどね。
ここで、http://www.kendo-canada.com/ckfkendo.htm The name Kendo was first used in the mid 1600s by Abe Gorodaiyu and Yamanouchi Renshinsai. 阿部の他に山之内って人も剣道って言葉使ってると言ってるが、 同時代の人かな? そもそも剣道って言葉は江戸期の人に使っても通用するものだったのかな? 剣術とか兵法のほうが通りがよかったのかな?
「剣道の理念」、「Kumdoの目的」はて、これも朴李かや。 花郎Kumdo館 http://www.kumdo.com/kumdo/kumdo_history.htm The Purpose of Practicing Kumdo The purpose of practicing Kumdo is: To mold the mind and body@` To cultivate a vigorous spirit@` And through correct and rigid training@` To strive for improvement of Kumdo@` To hold in esteem of courtesy and honor@` To treat others with sincerity@` And to forever pursue the cultivation of oneself. Thus@` one will be able: To be a patriot of righteousness in the highest form@` To respect and honor one's parents@` To trust@` honor and loyal to friends@` To perceive and never retreat from challenges@` 全米剣道連盟 http://www.kendo-usa.org/creed.htm The Meaning of Kendo The concept of Kendo is to discipline the human character through the application of the principles of the Katana. The purpose of practicing Kendo is: To mold the mind and body@` To cultivate a vigorous spirit@` And through correct and rigid training@` To strive for Improvement in the art of Kendo; To hold in esteem human courtesy and honor@` To associate with others with sincerity@` And to forever pursue the cultivation of oneself. Thus will one be able to love his country and society@` To contribue to the development of culture@` And to promote peace and prosperity among all people. 剣道の理念 剣道は剣の理法の修練による人間形成の道である 剣道修練の心構え 剣道を正しく真剣に学び 心身を錬磨して 旺盛なる気力を養い 剣道の特性を通じて 礼節をとうとび 信義を重んじ 誠を尽くして 常に自己の修業に努め 以って 国家社会を愛して 広く人類の平和繁栄に 寄与せんとするものである
結構、詳しいリンク集なんだが、Kumdoの認識はこの程度。 http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~ichini/link2.htm アジア Korea Kumdo(韓国)http://kumdo.co.kr/ ★Korean & English ここは韓国の剣道を統括する団体ではないようだが、他のサイトが韓国語 でしか書かれていないので、とりあえずこのサイトを代表として載せておく ことにした。KUM-DOの歴史と説明等を読むことができる。しかし、その他の 細かいページは韓国語になっていて、文字化けもひどく解読不能である。 アメリカ World Kum Do Association(アメリカ)http://www.wka.org/ 勉強不足ゆえ知らないのだが、剣道とKumu Doは似て非なるものらしい。 トップページにも「The Ancient Korean Sword/Fencing Art」と書かれている。 昨年はじめてのWorld Kumu Do Chanpionshipが行われたようだが、参加チームは 4チーム。優勝はカナダだった。コンテンツを見ていくと、防具の通信販売も行 っているよう。うーん、謎なサイトである(^^;
IKF@`AJKF、トップもオフィスも同じってええのかいな、そんなもんか。 http://www.kendo.or.jp/japanese/ikf/asia.html#ikf International Kendo Federation Tel: 81-3-3234-6271 President Yoshimitsu TAKEYASU All Japan Kendo Federation Tel: 81-3-3234-6271 President Yoshimitsu TAKEYASU
>167 KJFの↓これやJUDOをYUDOって言うのは知ってるが他にも? http://www.ijf.org/members/nf-ja-kor.html History of Judo in Korea Origin There are two main theories concerning the origin of Korean Judo. One theory is that Judo was developed as part of Korean traditional martial arts@` the other that it was introduced by the Japanese. Judo was introduced to Korea by Japan in 1907. As Judo began to attract the attention of policemen@` government officials and various athletes in the 1920's@` it also became a popular sport for the public. In the 1930s@` Korean Judo athletes attended a Judo event hosted by Japan and finished with successful results@` escalating the popularity of the sport in Korea.
ちょっと安心。 THE REGULATION OF:KENDO MATCH AND ITS REFEREEING T.PROLOGUE The Concept of Kendo:Kendo is to the human character through the application of the pronciples of the KATANA. U.REGULATIONS OF KENDO MATCH V.REGULATIONS OF KENDO REFEREEING Chapter 4:Major Point in Refereeing Article 9:Referees conduct announcement/declaration in the following manners: 1.Announce the beginning of a match → "HAJIME(start)" 2.Announce the resumption of a match → "HAJIME" 3.Announce YUKO DATOTSU → "MEN(KOTE@`DO or TSUKI) ARI" 4.Announce withdrawal of YOKO DATOTSU → "TORIKESHI(cancel)" 5.Announce the beginning of a NIHONME match → "NIHONME(start of a second point)" 6.Announce the beginnning of a play-off match → "SHOBU(start for a play-off)" 7.Announce HANTEI → "HANTEI" 8.Announce the victory/defeat → "SHOUBU ARI(victory decidede)" 9.Announce ....
>>102 >1896年警務請いで警察訓練と陸軍軟性学校の軍事訓練科目に剣道(今日の剣道)が採択さ >れながら現代式剣道が補給され始めた。 1916年には悟性学校で剣道教育施設を備えて青年階 >を指導して、1921年には朝鮮武道観が設立されて本格的に一般人達にも知られ始めたし1927年 >には中学校教科目で採択されたりした。 剣道(今日の剣道)が採択・・・とあるからやはり日帝が持ってきたんだ。なんで日本の影響下の元 という事が言えないんだろ? >In 1896@` During the era of modernization@` the art of the sword@` was selected as a mandatory training requirement for newly established police academy. >In 1896 during the era of modernization@` the art of the sword@` also known as "Ghihuck-Gum@`" was selected as a mandatory training requirement for the newly established police academy. ここでも記述はなし。歴史の連続性ってどうなるんだ?クムドがそのまま スポーツになりました? the art of the sword@` also known as "Ghihuck-Gum@`" これってどういう事です?もしかして嘘ついてるの かなぁ。これは突けるとこかな?
http://www.kois.go.kr/basic/apply/content.asp?c_code=150107&up_code=1501 柔道もテコンドもホッケーもアーチェリーももちろんウリナラが起源ニダ。 Judo Japanese judo@` the refined and advanced development of old Korean martial arts forms@` was reintroduced to Korea in 1907 and has attracted the wide participation of Korean athletes and sports-minded men and women.
T'aekwondo T'aekwondo is a self-defense martial art that developed in Korea during the last 2000 years of the nation's history. In recent times@` t'aekwondo has become a Korean national sport Field Hockey( Taekwondo is an officially acknowledged international sport originated in Korea ★いつかはKumdoもこうなるのは必定★ http://www.kois.go.kr/culture/heritage/index.asp )
Korean field hockey originated with the traditional Korean sport@` kyokku@` which was played on horseback beginning in the 11th century. During the Choson dynasty (1392-1910)@` it enjoyed wide popular appeal among the people
Archery Archery in Korea dates back to the misty days of prehistory@` with the founder king of the KoguryCo Kingdom being the first recorded expert archer.
まだあるよ。 http://www.kois.go.kr/culture/heritage/index.asp はずかしいと思うがなこんなことトンデモの自慢したら。 Han-gul The Korean Alphabet Koreans use their own unique alphabet called Han-gul. It is considered to be one of the most efficient alphabets in the world and has garnered unanimous praise from language experts for its scientific design and excellence.
野菜の塩漬けをキムチとは言わないよ。500年も起源の古くしやがって。 もち、日本から唐辛子をなんてこたあ言わないよ。 Kimchi and Pulgogi Early historical records of kimchi making do not mention red peppers or garlic. Various spellings of the dish appear but they all share the same meaning: vegetables soaked in salt water. One of the earliest@` if not the earliest@` descriptions of kimchi making is in a work by Yi Kyu-bo (1168-1241)@` a noted literary figure during the Koryo Dynasty (918-1392)@` in which he describes the preparation of turnips for storing for food for winter. A more detailed description of kimchi appears in a recipe book written in the late 1600s but the first mention of kimchi seasoned with red pepper is in a cookbook printed in 1765. Recipes closely resembling today's kimchi appear in two cookbooks published in the early 1800s.
Archery in Korea dates back to the misty days of prehistory@` ・・・・・これって弓道とイッショクタにしてるね。 あちゃー。弓道をいうものがちゃんと現存すれば一緒にする事は ないのだけど・・・・。そういう文化がありませんでした と言ってるようなもんだな。 韓国はいつになったらまともになるの? 国民の正気なのか?
Baseball was first played by the YMCA staff and students at the German Language Institute in Korea in 1905. Thereafter@` the sport became popular. これも嘘くさいな。野球を広めたのはどう考えても日本だろう。 日本、台湾、韓国でなぜ野球がポピュラーか考えればわかる事。
韓国人を世界の笑い者にしたら彼等は気づかないか?
Field Hockey・・・・これは本当なの?我々にも似たような スポーツがあったからと、また言ってるだけ? ホッケーの発祥地ってイギリスだよね?イギリス人にも教えて あげようよ。彼等はこういう事言うんだってさ。
The people of Ko Choson or the oldest kingdom of Korea are recorded as Tong-i@` "eastern bowmen" or "eastern barbarians." They propagated in Manchuria@` the eastern littoral of China@` areas north of the Yangtze River@` and the Korean Peninsula. The eastern bowmen had a myth in which the legendary founder Tan-gun was born of a father of heavenly descent and a woman from a bear-totem tribe. He is said to have started to rule in 2333 B.C.@` and his descendants reigned in Choson@` the "Land of Morning Calm@`" for more than a millennium.
http://www.siprep.org/compsci/Kelli/Kelli_webpage/page2.html この手の遊びは世界中にあるそうです。 Evidence of games played with a ball and a stick date back over 4@` 000 years to the Nile Valley Egypt@` and similar games were played by civilizations ranging from the Greeks and Romans to the Ethiopians and Aztecs. 韓国破れたり。 The modern game of field hockey evolved in England during the 19th century and led to the creation of the sport's international federation@` >The first modern hockey tournament in Korea modernって言葉が好きですね。 >kyokku@` which was played on horseback beginning in the 11th century. >During the Choson dynasty (1392-1910)@` これって馬でやるやつでしょ?ホッケーの起源にならないじゃん(笑) 時代も新しいのう。よその国に言いふらしましょう。韓国人はこう言う事 言うんだよって。クムドの事も分ってもらえるでしょうね。 馬に乗るのはイギリスにもあったよね。ついでにホロの起源を調べてみよう。
http://www.poloestancia.com/English/Polo.htm Polo probably originated in Persia@` more than 600 B.C. It was played in Byzantium@` China@` Japan@` Tibet and India@` where it came to the attention of British colonists. The rules were originally drawn up at the Hurlingham Club in London@` where the first two polo fields were opened in 1874. ほう面白いですね。日本にもあったんだ。 しかも李朝鮮より早いな。韓国飛ばされてる。 韓国のポロ似の起源も調べると面白そう。 多分中国辺りから入ったのでしょうね。 ポロは被植民地人(インド?日本が紛らわしい)から伝わったんだ。 まさにクムドもこうであったらいいのになぁ ってヤツ。
>>216 The eastern bowmen had a myth in which the legendary founder Tan-gun was born of a father of heavenly descent and a woman from a bear-totem tribe. He is said to have started to rule in 2333 B.C.@` and his descendants reigned in Choson@` the "Land of Morning Calm@`" for more than a millennium. 世界への発信だとさすがにa myth in which the legendary founder Tan-gun was born と書いて、伝説だと断りを入れてる。国内向けでは教科書に檀君の 古朝鮮建国BC233を史実だとしているくせに、ダブルスタンダードだな。自国民を バカにしてるぜまったく。 The people of Ko Choson or the oldest kingdom of Korea ここのorは「または」というより「即ち」と考えるんだと思うが、Choson 朝鮮って 漢字、漢民族の言葉なわけで、それを国号とする不自然さを何とおもってんだろなあ。 韓、朝鮮、海東、もしかしたら高句麗もか?これらはみんな中国人による命名なんだ よなあ。あんなに自尊心の強いはずの連中がよくもまあ、国名や雅称に借り物の名前 を使えるもんだ。やはり高麗(これ自前?)が適当かなあ。しかし、元にさんざんに いたぶられた屈辱の歴史がネックかな。でもKOREAだからなあ。一番自然か。 あれれ、すっかり、横道にそれました。すんません。
Hwarangkwan Kumdo Forum続報 http://pluto.beseen.com/boardroom/m/49500/View?n=00133a00135 re: Bongook Kumbup SL 3:32 pm monday july 3@` 2000 I have not found any complete English translation@` yet. As soon as I find one@` I will post the translation. Meanwhile@` the form was described in a book called "Muye dobo tongji"@` and the names of the stances are very descriptive ones. For instance@` number five is called "Hu il kyuck se". "Hu" means "to the rear or back"@` "il kyuck" means one strike@` and "se" means "a form".
ハプキドウって漢字だとどう書くのですか? そういう意図もあって崔龍述の事を教えないのかな?まさかハプキドを 日本合気道の亜流とは教えていないだろうに。 Shortly before he died@` my teacher informed me that I was the only student that he had schooled in all of his secrets and techniques. 英語得意じゃないんでメンドクさくて全部読む気はうせるけど、これは 酷いな(笑)酷いんだけども、韓国人にしては良心的なサイトに見えてしまうです。(笑)
そういう意図もあって崔龍述の事を教えないのかな?まさかハプキドを 日本合気道の亜流とは教えていないだろうに。 Shortly before he died@` my teacher informed me that I was the only student that he had schooled in all of his secrets and techniques. 英語得意じゃないんでメンドクさくて全部読む気はうせるけど、これは 酷いな(笑)酷いんだけども、韓国人にしては良心的なサイトに見えてしまうです。(笑)
>確かに「朝鮮の武術家」と言っていたのでね。 韓国語で? some say that I was once a man@` known as Hamato Yoshi. Another tale states that I was once merely a humble pet rat of a man named Hamato Yoshi. For the record allow me to state that both are true... and yet@` neither is true. ハマトヨシって日本的ですね。朝鮮っぽくはない。
私はヌンチャク=ブルースリー、どうせ中国だろうと思ってたら 空手の武器であるという事を小耳に挟んで、単純にへえ!って思ったんです。 日本に対する優越感から来る、根拠のない優越感というものとは別のものですよ。 逆です。 The nunchaku's humble beginnings lie in the rice paddies of Okinawa@` 他のサイトではこういう事も書いてありました。 http://home.coqui.net/jlromang/brustor2.htm . One of them was an expert in the nunchaku and Ka-li - Mr. Dan Inosanto. こういうのもありましたね。しかしnunchakuを誰から教わったかは分りません。
It may be concluded that the Japanese Karate@` in turn@` derives from Taekyon or Subak@` the primitive form of Taekwondo. なんなだこれはふざけやがって。 http://www.koreataekwondo.org/eng/ency/ency1_1.htm REFERENCES TO THE SHCINESE KUNGFU AND THE JAPANESE KARATE Some people believe that Korean Taekwondo was originated from Kungfu@` the Chinese self-defense art. According to a Chinese document. the Chinese art of self-defense is believed to have been initiated as a sort of physical exercise when the Bodhi Dharma taught the monks of Hsiaolin Temple in Tungpung Country@` Honan Provice@` China.Bodihi Dharma@` a great Indian Buddhist Zen master@` came to China in 520 A. D. and spent nine years at Hsiaolin Temple where he introduced the art of self-defense. However@` if we recall that the mural paintings of Taekwondo in the ancient tombs of Koguryo belong to the period 3 A. D. to 427A. D.@` it cannot be said that the Korean Taekwondo owes its origin to the Chinese Kungfu. No detailed record is available when Karate@` the Japanese self-defense art equivalent to Taekwondo@` was initiated. There are two-fold explanations about it. One explanation is that a Chinese named Chen Yuanpin@` who lived in the late Ming dynasty@` was naturalized as a Japanese and imparted the Chinese "Kungfu" to the Japanese people. The other explanation says that Karate is a developed form of "Okinawate@`" a self-defense art indigenous to Okinawa. However@` that time in Korea@` "Subak"@` an old name of Taekwondo@` has quained great popularity among the people@` and therefore it is not unlikely that the envoys from Okinawa learned that game and introduced to their people. This speculation is not too absurd when we recall the fact that "Nul"@` the Korean see-saw@`was also adopted by the people of Okinawa from Korea.It may be concluded that the Japanese Karate@` in turn@` derives from Taekyon or Subak@` the primitive form of Taekwondo.Taekwondo retained its popularity after the Koguryo and Silla dynasties through the Koryo dynasty@` that was founded in 918 A. D.@` and continued for 475 years@` and through the Yi dynasty.
the name tae kwon do was officially adopted for this martial art in 1955 after that name had been submitted by the South Korean general Choi Hong Hi@` the principal founder of tae kwon do.
the Korean see-saw@`was also adopted by the people of Okinawa from Korea. 何すか?これは?シーソーって空手の武器なの?(笑)alsoって? じゃあそれ以外の事例を示せよ。 Korean art of unarmed combat that is based on the earlier form of Korean self-defense known as tae kyon and on karate. こっちはまだマトモですね。ITF寄りの意見。 数十年のスパンでいかにテコンドーが捏造されていったのだろう。 空手には禅などの思想が吹きこまれたのだろうけど、技を 捏造していくテコンドウとはちょっと違うな。 唐手の付加が空手だとすると(手があったとしてもそれは 唐の付加)テコンドウは空手とテッキョンのコンビネーションですか。 数十年で格闘技ってそう安々融合するもんかな。 テコンドウ特有の足技はどの文献に当れば出てくるのです下ね。 どの辺りがテッキョンなのだろう?日本統治以前には本当に あったのか? 昔はコンビネーションだった筈が、今では、テコンドウ>空手 になっちゃった。ルーツも転倒。そのテコンドウのルーツが テッキョンならそのテッキョンのルーツを探ったら面白いのでは なかろうか?実はテッキョンのルーツがテコンドウ? 民族格闘技を捏造する上の、試みだったとしか思えない。
"tahn do li ga" (short flail). Nunchaku is the Japanese word for tahn do li ga. http://www.itatkd.com/v-123.html だそうです・・ ヌンチャクの語源まで探ってるとは悪質だなー。酷すぎ。 この外人確信犯というより洗脳されてるんじゃないの?
>435 奥さんが韓国人とかじゃないかな。韓国武気道だそうな。 この人、日本に拘ってるが、中国武術だよ、これじゃあ。アチョー。 What Is "Han Kuk Mu Ki Do"? Han Kuk Mu Ki Do[tm] is the study of the Traditional Martial Arts Weapons of Korea. These weapons were primarily common@` everyday farm tools or other items@` such as the ji pang e (cane)@` jang bong (long staff)@` jung bong (middle staff)@` tahn bong (short stick)@` ee chul bong (two-section stick "nunchaku")@` jang tan-do (long daggers "sai" in Japanese)@` nat (sickle)@` cha-ru (handle "tonfa" in Japanese)@` and several other weapons. The Art of Han Kuk Mu Ki Do [tm] includes the techniques@` tactics@` and hyungs (patterns) which are used in learning these traditional weapons of ancient Korea. Just because an individual holds the rank of black belt in a Korean mu do (martial art) does not mean he or she is proficient in the use of traditional Korean weapons. It takes a great amount of time and commitment in order to develop the skills necessary to become proficient with Korean weapons. Grand Master Benko has been studying Korean weapons since 1959 and is one of the leading experts in the world in this field of study. http://www.itatkd.com/weaponsprogram.html
しかし、前出のサイトの韓国の百科事典擬きっていいかんげんだなあ。 http://www.koreataekwondo.org/eng/ency/ency1_1.htm HWARANDO OF THE SILLA DYNASTY Taekwondo was also practiced during the Silla dynasty. Silla was a kingdom founded in the southestern part of the land some 20 years before Koguryo in the north. At Kyongju@` the ancient capital of Silla@` two buddhist imags are inscribed ofn the inner walls of Skkuram cave in Pulkuk-sa Temple. These two 'Diamond warriors' protectiong Buddhism from devils take Taekwondo stances. ●なんだってー、仁王像はテコンドのポーズしてるのかよ。おいおい。 Silla was famous for its hwarang. Korean culture and martial arts of the period were strongly influenced and enriched by the Hwarangdo@` a military@` educational and social organization and noble youths of the Silla dynasty. The code of honor on which the Hwarang was based was loyalty to the nation@` respect and obedience to one's 'parents@` faithfulness to one's friends@` courage in battle and avoidance of unnecessary violence and killing. The influence of the Hwarangdo played an important role in unifying the three kingdoms.Many scattered descriptions in witten documents of the three kingdoms such as the Samguk Yusa@` the oldest document of Korean history@` show that Hwarangdo not only regarded the Taekwondo practice for their unarmed combat study as an essential part of physical and military trainding@` but also recommended it as a recreational activity. ●花郎道とテコンドと三国遺事を無理矢理結びつけるなよ。花野「道」なんて存在しない。 Archeologic findings such as mural paintings on the royal tombs of the Koguryo dynasty@` the stone sculptures of pagodas of temples produced during the Silla period@` and many scattered descriptions in written documents show that many studies of fighting stances@` sills and formalized movements closely resemble the present stances and forms of Taekwondo. Therefore@` it can be inferrod that people in the three kingdoms practiced an art very like the one we study today. ●結局たったそれだけの根拠で推測、思いこみをしてるだけね。
http://www.indiana.edu/~iutkd/history/tkdhist.html "People and Events of T'aekwondo's Formative Years" by Dakin Burdick@` 1996 Of course@` most literature on t'aekwondo describes the art as "thousands of years old@`" but this is simply not so. Most of the martial arts practiced in Korea before the nineteenth century were merely reflections of Chinese martial arts. The three most common pieces of evidence for the antiquity of t'aekwondo -- the tomb murals of Koguryo kingdom@` the statue of Kumkang-Yuksa@` and the Muye tobo t'ongji (1790s) -- actually show that early Korean martial arts were largely derivative of Chinese martial arts. First@` the tomb murals of the Koguryo dynasty (3-427 A.D.) do indeed show martial arts being practiced@` but these murals are now located in modern Manchuria@` not Korea. This of course is a mere technicality@` since the Koguryo kingdom included much of both northern Korea and Manchuria@` but it is also true that the Koguryo kingdom was heavily influenced by the Chinese. In fact@` Koguryo was the easternmost outpost of Han dynasty China (206 B.C.-220 A.D.)@` and the martial arts depicted in Koguryo tomb murals closely resemble those in the tomb murals of the Eastern Han@` located in what is now eastern China. This suggests that the form of Koguryo-era martial arts emerged because of Chinese cultural influence@` rather than independent development by the future Koreans. Secondly@` the statue of Kumkang-Yuksa at Sokkuram@` which is often cited as the figure of an ancient warrior practicing t'aekwondo@` is in fact a Buddhist guardian figure found through-out East Asia@` and thus cannot be said to be unique to Korea either. Lastly@` and most conclusively@` the Muye tobo t'ongji (Illustrated Manual of Martial Arts) of the 1790s describes Chinese tactics and martial skills including quan-fa ("boxing"; lit. "fist method")@` quotes classical Chinese sources@` and was written by a scholar famed for his erudition in classical Chinese. Indeed@` it seems nearly identical to the Jixiao Xinshu or New Book for Effective Discipline (1561) by the Chinese general Jiquang Qi (1528-1587). Thus@` the three pieces of evidence most often cited as supporting the existence of an ancient form of t'aekwondo actually support the opposing viewpoint@` and demonstrate that Korean martial arts imitated Chinese martial arts until at least 1800.
http://www.bstkd.com/CAPENER.1.HTM Problems in the Identity and Philosophy of T'aegwondo and Their Historical Causes By: Steven D. Capener@` 1995 I. Introduction The main cause of these problems is found in the history of t'aegwondo's origins. The fact that t'aegwondo was first brought into Korea from Japan in the form of Japanese karate around the time of the liberation of Korea from Japanese colonial rule@` and the way this fact has been dealt with in Korea has left many serious inconsistencies [81] in the way t'aegwondo has been developed within Korea and propagated abroad. This process of development can be broadly outlined as follows: Japanese karate called kongsudo or tangsudo was introduced to Korea just after liberation from Japan by Koreans who had learned karate in Japan. Upon returning@` these Koreans opened karate gymnasiums promoting what they were teaching as karate@` much like the process followed by the early Judo instructors. Well after these schools became established@` the need to "Koreanize" was felt. The process of Koreanization consisted of three main aspects. The first was the selection of a new@` non-Japanese name. The second was the creation of a system of techniques and training which was distinctly different from that of karate@` and the third was the attempt to establish t'aegwondo's existence and development within tile historical flow of Korean civilization. The development of a new system of techniques and training was under-taken by moving away from karate's nature as a martial art of self-defense through the development of t'aegwondo as a sport? This has been called the "competitionalization" or sportization of t'aegwondo.
II. Problems in the Popular Treatment of T'aegwondo's History Most historical treatments of t'aegwondo follow approximately the same syllabus. The textbook published by the Korean Minister of Education in 1976 serves as a good example of the typical writings regarding t'aegwondo history which begins with two pages dealing with the probable need and origin of fighting skills in prehistoric@` tribal Korea. Next are about 20 pages dealing with the sonbae of Koguryo and the hwarang of Shilla and their practice of' t'aegwondo which was then called subak or taekkyon. Following are five pages regarding the subakhui of the Koryo dynasty. Then five pages regarding the t'aekkyon of the Choson dynasty@` and@` finally@` two sentences dealing with the fortunes of t'aegwondo in the period from the end of the 19th century until the liberation of Korea from Japanese colonial rule in 1945. A review of the available literature shows this to be a typical pattern. From an academic point of view@` however@` this seems an illogical treatment of the history. Much more effort is devoted to attempting to demonstrate that some sort of unarmed fighting form existed in Korea during a period in which there is little or no written historical documentation@` while practically no attention is given to the period in which t'aegwondo actually began to appear in its modern form in Korea@` and for which there is much more historical evidence. This paper does not require an examination of the period before the end of the Choson dynasty except for some comments regarding the nature of subak during the Chos6n dynasty. The general assertion that t'aegwondo is the direct descendant of t'aekkyon is substantially the issue which demands objective investigation. Therefore@` the nature and status of t'aekkyon from the late Choson period until the time that the first karate gymnasiums began to appear in Korea circa 1946-1947 is of much greater historical significance.
Two of the more prominent t'aegwondo leaders of that period@` Hwang Ki and Ch'oe Hong-hui@` had practiced t'aekkyon and later incorporated its kicking techniques into the methods of Japanese karate. Most t'aegwondo histories will not admit to any relation to karate whatsoever. Hwang uses this relation with t'aekkyon to explain t'aegwondo's emphasis on foot techniques.10 Primarily@` it is important to understand the nature of' t'aekkyon in Choson and early colonial society.
We can find the first references to subak@` which@` it is claimed@` is the predecessor of t'aekkyon@` in the Koryosa (History of Koryo) circa 1147.11 These references to subak continue into the Choson dynasty@` however@` even as early as 1343 subak was being referred to as a spectator sport and not a martial art.12 The first reference to t'aekkyon comes from a book called the Chaemulbo written by Yi Song-gi during the reign of King Chongjo (1776-1800) where it is referred to as t'aekkyon. In the mid 1800s@` an artist of the royal court named Yu Suk ( 1827-1873) painted a mural called the Taek'oedo in which t'aekkyon and ssirum are being contested as folk games in the midst of much smoking and drinking.
in 1966 the Korean T'aesudo Association changed its name to the Korean T'aegwondo Association.What is more significant than the fact that practically all the schools in Korea were using the name karate and the Japanese terminology for the techniques@` is that the forms and training methods were also Japanese@` with no techniques or terminology resembling those of t'aekkyon.27 For these early instructors this was not a problem. The nationalistic and political motivations to portray t'aegwondo as having Korean origins would not be felt until sometime after tile more pressing problems created by the Korean War had started to fade away.28 Once this movement to "Koreanize" t'aegwondo started@` there were three major projects to be undertaken. First was finding a suitable Korean name. The more difficult task of providing a historical basis for t'aegwondo followed@` along with the most difficult part of the process: developing an original system of techniques by which to distinguish t'aegwondo from karate. The fact that in the period from after liberation until the early 1960s t'aegwondo consisted of Japanese terminology and techniques was the most awkward obstacle in trying to assert that t'aegwondo originated in Korea. This is perhaps the reason why this crucial period receives so little historical treatment. The second generation of instructors who had received their training exclusively in Korea under first generation Japanese trained instructors solved the problem by an original system of techniques by developing a method of competition radically different from the Japanese system. This attempt was made@` however@` in the face of much opposition from the first generation instructors such as Ch'oe Hong-hui and Hwang Ki.29
http://www.bstkd.com/CAPENER.1.HTM 補足 テッキョンは日帝下で弾圧禁止さてたわけではない。李朝時代から公序良俗に反する ものとして、再三禁止令が出されていて19世紀末にはほとんど消滅していた。 In 1921@` at the age of 70@` Ch'oe Yong-nyon described t'aekkyon in his book@` Haedong chukchi@` as a game in which two partners squared off and tried to knock each other down with their feet. He went on to say@` "This became a means of exacting revenge for a slight or winning away an opponent's concubine through betting. Due to this@` the game was outlawed by the judiciary and eventually disappeared.13 Many writers have tried to assert that t'aekkyon was forced underground as a result of being outlawed by tile Japanese during the colonial period due to its potential as a source of anti-Japanese revolt. In fact some have gone a step further and@` after stating that the Japanese outlawed t'aekkyon@` attempted to explain the use of the name karate (kongsu and tangsu) in post-liberation Korea and the use of karate forms@` (hyong) by stating that@` due to t'aekkyon's similarity to karate@` the Japanese forced Koreans to use the name karate in referring to t'aekkyon and to include Japanese forms in its practice. This seems to be an apparent contradiction. If the Japanese had banned the practice of t'aekkyon@` how and why would they force Koreans to call it karate or incorporate karate techniques into it? This is a moot point. According to both Ch'oe Yong-nyon and Song Tok-ki@` the last progeny of Choson t'aekkyon@` t'aekkyon had@` for the most part@` faded out of folk culture shortly after the turn of the century. Ch'oe Yong-nyon stated that due to gambling and other unsavory aspects deemed harmful to the preservation of healthy social customs@` t'aekkyon was forbidden and even youngsters seen playing it were chased with a switch by the village elders. In this way it soon disappeared.15 T'aekkyon seems to have suffered the same fate as that of another Choson era folk game called p'yon ssaum which was an organized rock fighting between two teams@` usually two villages. This game was popular since the Koryo dynasty and was watched by kings@` as was subak. However@` King Sejong was so horrified by the primitiveness of it that he ordered it banned.16 Nevertheless it survived repeated attempts at prohibition by the judiciary17 which finally succeeded in abolishing it sometime after the turn of the century.18
テコンドー創始者チョイ氏はテッキョンなど習っていなかった。 テッキョンはソウル地方のみの風俗。北朝鮮出のチョイ氏が修得する機会はなかった。 Both t'aekkyon and p'yon ssaum are listed in a book called Korean Games written in 1895 by all American scholar named Stuart Culin who describes t'aekkyon as a game in which the object is to kick the opponent's leg out from under him or catch the opponent's kick and throw him to the ground. He goes on to say that the game was also played in Japan.19 In a similar book called Han'guk-ui minsok nori (Korean Folk Games)@` written in 1975 by a Korean scholar of Korean folk customs named Shim U-song@` a good deal of attention is given to rock fighting but there is no mention of t'aekkyon.20 Further testimony to the completeness of t'aekkyon 's disappearance front Korean folk customs is given by Song Tok-ki the Choson's "last t'aekkyon player" who was invited in 1958 to give a demonstration of t'aekkyon on the occasion of then President Syngman Rhee's birthday. In spite of searching in "100 directions" he was unable to locate even one person versed in t'aekkyon with whom he could demonstrate.21 This in spite of hundreds of t'aegwondo schools throughout the country. Song Tok-ki goes on to say that t'aekkyon was never thought of as other than a game and existed almost exclusively in Seoul where it was played regularly in a few locations.22 These are crucial points in the argument that t'aegwondo came from t'aekkyon. Especially when Ch'oe Hong-hui@` the individual who claims to have combined the techniques of t'aekkyon and karate@` says he learned t'aekkyon from his calligraphy teacher Han Il-dong in Hamgyong-do province@` in what is now North Korea.23 This statement conflicts with tile testimony of Song Tok-ki who said that t'aekkyon was mostly a Seoul phenomenon. And further@` it is highly unlikely that the rough and tumble atmosphere of the t'aekkyon matches was a place where an artist of calligraphy like Han Il-dong would have been found@` especially in light of the distaste the educated of the late Choson had for the rustic folk play of the common class.
>>445 多くのテコンドーの歴史的扱いには以下のような類似性がある。 1.prehistoric@` tribal Korea 2.the sonbae of Koguryo and the hwarang of Shilla:subak or taekkyon 3.subakhui of the Koryo dynasty 4.t'aekkyon of the Choson dynasty 5.the fortunes of t'aegwondo in the period from the end of the 19th century 6.until the liberation of Korea from Japanese colonial rule in 1945 学術的見地からはたとえトンデモであろうとも、朝鮮に素手の格闘技があったことを 締めそうと多大な努力が払われる。 >>446 Hwang Ki と Ch'oe Hong-huiはテッキョンを学んだ後、カラテを手法を取り入れた。 ほとんどのテコンドー史学者はカラテとの関係を一切認めようとしない。Hwang Ki は テコンドの足技の説明にテッキョンとの関係を強調する。 subak@`に関する文献はテッキョンの先行物として高麗史(約1147AC)に記載がある。 subak に関する文献は李朝まで続くが、早くとも1343年ではsubakは見せ物であって武術ではない。 テッキョンはChaemulbo written by Yi Song-gi during the reign of King Chongjo (1776-1800)に最初の記載がある。19世紀中頃宮廷画家の Yu Suk ( 1827-1873) が Taek'oedo とされる壁画を描いたが、それはt'aekkyonとかssirumとの異説もある。 >>447 in 1966 Korean T'aesudo Association はKorean T'aegwondo Associationと名称を変えた。 60初めまでは韓国の全学校ではカラテと言った名前や日本語の技術用語を用いていたので あったが、テコンドーの"Koreanize" 運動が始まると、a suitable Korean name、providing a historical basis 、developing an original system of techniques の3つが計画された。 こうした試みはCh'oe Hong-hui や Hwang Kiの反対にもかかわらず、成し遂げたれた。
>>455 >相撲もモンゴルから韓国経由でやって来た モンゴル相撲の母胎となる何か、西アジア、中央アジアにあったものが 韓国経由で来たというのはそんなに違ってないのでは?神事として。 ただ、その後はモンゴル、韓国、日本各々独自の発展をしたと思う。 日本のはすごく大々的な展開があったってことだとおもう。 このhttp://www.bstkd.com/CAPENER.1.HTM Problems in the Identity and Philosophy of T'aegwondo and Their Historical Causes は読み応えがあるなあ。452までに紹介された以外の後半部分も面白い。 テコンドのゆがんだ発展に起因したテコンドの精神部分の危機について書 いてある。これはテコンドだけじゃなく、安易に日本のパクリばかりして きた韓国人がいずれ直面することになるかもしれないことなのかも。
>492 そっちの論文は>>459の http://www.bstkd.com/CAPENER.1.HTM のではなく、>>443、>>450に出てる、 http://www.indiana.edu/~iutkd/history/tkdhist.html これですよね。この論文の出だしは高句麗壁画、仁王像、武芸図普通志の欺瞞性を ついてて、いいんだけど、だんだん記述が怪しげになりますね。テッキョンは日帝 下でいかにして生き延びてきたかの話はかなり眉唾っぽい。従軍慰安婦とかの話は 韓国の受け売りだしで、虚実が混じりあってますね。ただここの部分は注目かな。 剣道のこともちょっとふれてる。 At least four Japanese martial arts remained popular in Korea after liberation@` albeit under their Koreanized names. Koreans continued to study yudo (judo)@` komdo (kendo)@` yusul (jujutsu)@` and kongsudo (karate-do). The Korean Yudo Association was founded in October of 1945 by Mum-Suk Lee and Jin-Hee Han@` and the Korean Komdo Association (K.K.A.) was organized in Seoul in 1948. The K.K.A. became affiliated with the Korean Amateur Sports Association on Nov. 20@` 1953@` and in the same year the Korean Yudo College was founded with Dr. Je-Hwang Lee as its first president. Both yudo and komdo remained virtually unchanged from their Japanese namesakes. On the other hand@` the arts of yusul and kongsudo have changed greatly since Korean liberation. Yusul developed into hapkido and all of its derivatives (kuksul@` hwarang-do@` etc.)@` while kongsudo would eventually go through the greatest changes of all@` developing into tangsudo and t'aekwondo.
Kumdo@` Kendo: What's the difference? Gravitom 0:43 am sunday july 9@` 2000 I'm a newbie and would like to know the differences. Can anybody help me out?
Just a quick question. Phil 8:50 am saturday july 22@` 2000 Hi. Your website looks great. I am taking Kumdo right now over here in Korea and my master trains us like there is no tomorrow. Great training. Listen@` I just had a question about the uniform we wear and the gear that we use. There are talks going around about the use of Japanese style dobok's and hogu's. Yeah@` I am a Korean-American too@` but I am not too particular about what we wear. But just wondered if there are traditional Korean uniforms being developed. I think this is where people confuse whether Kumdo is Korean or Japanese. We say that Kumdo has its roots from Korea@` and yet we are still using Japanese gear. For others who think that Koreans and Japanese hate each other for various reasons; well@` it is not true now. Us younger generation would like to leave behind what is of the past and work together for future. Just wanted to clarify. well@` take care. Hope we can come up with what is ours and do better next time at the World Championship. from Korea@` Phil
どこが偉いの? > But just wondered if there are >traditional Korean uniforms being developed ユニフォームは違うのに、試合に出てこられたらそれこそ 問題だよ。こっちにもオリジナリティーがあるよと主張されてしまう。
全く別の大会にしても、剣道は日本剣術を元に出来てるんだから 結局日本のパクリをやって剣道マガイのモノが出来るだけ。 日本と一見違う事をやりながら実質剣道のパクリ・・・・これって 本当にパクリ、文化侵略ですね。 >We say that Kumdo has its roots from Korea@` てっ結局考えてるわけだし、ユニフォーム替えたらルーツがコリアに なるわけ? 侍や刀とかのイメージを韓国に持っていかれるよ。 >Us youngergeneration would like to leave behind what is of the past and >work together for future. レトリックだよ。自分達に都合の悪いことはleave behindしたいんだね。 日本が被害者なんだよ。しかも今現在進行中の。 その事はleave behind出来ません。
海道剣道は剣道とは別と認めてるだけでもまだまだ良心的。 guestbookにも海道の悪口はありましたね。 There are two main styles: the Haedong Kumdo and the DaeHan Kumdo. I know that numerous celebrities like Na Han Il is a great proponent and a 7th degree master in Haedong. Maybe you can include the differences between the Haedong Kumdo and the DaeHan Kumdo in your homepage. Haedong is saying that DaeHan is just traslating the Japanese words for your Kumdo terms. And that your style is not the original Korean Kumdo but a shoddy mixture of the Japanese style. I know that this is not the truth@` but many people do not know that. This in particular is because of the kendo propaganda and its investment into the media... through movies@` animation@` etc. ハエドンの方がましやな。ハエドンクムドはテコンドーの新種みたいなタイプだね。 正座とか明かに剣道の真似。そのまま真似していていると民族のプライドが傷つく ・・・・ということで、乗っ取ってルーツがコリア、剣道はまるまるコリアの ものと言う、または、別のものを作り上げていくか・・・その違いでしょう。
>>531 >ハエドンの方がましやな。ハエドンクムドはテコンドーの新種みたいなタイプだね。 >正座とか明かに剣道の真似。そのまま真似していていると民族のプライドが傷つく >・・・・ということで、乗っ取ってルーツがコリア、剣道はまるまるコリアの >ものと言う、または、別のものを作り上げていくか・・・その違いでしょう。 旧スレでHaedongを検索すると484、715、728 、729、772がヒットしますね。 There are two main styles: the Haedong Kumdo and the DaeHan Kumdo. ってあるけど、Haedong=haidong=海東、DaeHan=大韓でしょうね。 新旧スレともに漢字では海東剣道連盟だけど、英語表記はGumdo、Kumdoで違ってる。 住所も違がうしなあ、別組織かな?それとも道場が違うだけかな? 真剣傷害事件をやったのは旧スレの方みたい。>>504、>>505、>>506のゲストブック の書き込みには別団体所属とか段位認定が甘いとか出てたな。両サイトの形式は似通 ってるから同じ組織で単に道場の違いだけかな。それにしてもどうしてGumdo、Kumdo と違える必要があるんだ?この場合韓国語発音では濁音の区別が無いから表記に無頓着 なだけなのかなあ。 旧スレのはhttp://www.haedong.com/home.htm Haedong Gumdo Federation@` Korea 649-2 Sanggye-9dong@` Korea Plaza Building 407 Nowon-gu@` Seoul 139-200@` Korea TEL: 02-934-0194?5 FAX: 02-934-0196 新スレのはhttp://www.haidong.com/frame1.htm HAEDONG KUMDO FEDERATION 2-8 BANPO-2DONG@`SINBANPO BUILDING@` SEOCHO-GU@`SEOUL 137-042@`KOREA TEL:02-594-6851-2 FAX:02-594-6853
http://www.kswofmeyerland.com/Korean_Sword.htm and some scholars argue that the Chinese warriors who helped the Koreans ward off the Japanese took the je dok gum back to China@` where it influenced the development of Chinese swords. http://www.commenttech.com/kuksool/remainder.htm The weapons varied so much that it seemed as though there was never a standard pattern for them. 技術の未熟さと、コリアンソードの型がないだけでは?これを多用さと言うところがなかなか・・・ Many treasured weapons and traditions that had been passed down for generations were destroyed by the Japanese. 相変わらず。 Koreans ward off the Japanese took the je dok gum back to China@` where it influenced the development of Chinese swords. だってよ。 Obviously@` modern claims that all Korean swords belong to the straight-sword category or that they were merely replicas of Japanese swords are incorrect. じゃなくてcorecctだろうね。
Muyejeboは 武芸諸諸かな。 This book was a compilation of techniques for six different weapons@` all learned from the Chinese.
Kwonbop - or fist technique - and a further eleven skills@` including Korean native sword@` Japanese sword@` long bamboo spear@` flag spear@` sharp sword@` crescent sword@` long handled sword@` paired sword and lash cudgel was published in 1759 in the Muyeshinbo (New Annotations on Martial Arts). In 1790 a further six skills was added to Muyedobo T'ongji@` making it a total of 24. Muyedobo T'ongjiこれは武芸図譜通知みたい。その前に武芸図譜というのが あったのかな?
Kendo - Martial Arts - Net Links ...derived from traditional Korean sword arts. Japanese Sword... ...Association describe kumdo@` the Korean sword-fighting art@` in... http://martialarts.about.com/msub10.htm なんでこういう表示になるんだ?korean swoedで検索したら出てきた。
Much of Korea's historical sword use was with straight@` double- edged blades but Korea willingly embraced the change to the curved single edged style when the killing power of the weapon was proven. The straight@` double-edged blade which was retained by the Chinese@` was faster but unable to generate the amount of force the curved blades could produce nor was it as effective in mass engagements. The Japanese also preferred this weapon style when it appeared and most agree they refined its forging and development to the highest degree.
For more information about Japanese sword styles such as Iaido and Kendo check the Japanese Sword Arts FAQ.
Kumdo is the Korean pronounciation of kendo. Kendo was introduced to Korea by the Japanese during the occupation. After the Japanese left@` the Koreans continued practicing using slightly different gear and new terminology. A considerable amount of revisionist history can be found regarding Kumdo which can be attributed to a strong nationalistic attitude@` not to mention bitterness towards the Japanese.
According to some sources@` Korea does have its own style of swordsmanship but it is little practiced and mostly lost. The older style seems quite circular and often incorporates kicks and punches into the forms: it seems related to Kumdo only in that a sword is used. ★During the 15th century Japanese swords were imported in significant numbers;★ previously Korean swords had been straight and mostly double-edged. Most of the older texts which survive label the weapons used as "Japanese swords" but may have been showing older forms incorporating the more modern weapon
Mounting his horse and drawing his double-edged sword@` Kim leapt across a ditch and rode headlong into the fight. だそうです。本国剣法double-edged sword(剣)でやるのは無理だ と思うんですが。
It is thought that the KOGARASUMARU was the inspiration for the curved@` single-edged HANCHO-TO which was apparently necessitated as a shock reducer for fighting from horseback. 小烏丸は両刃→片刃、曲刀という進化から 生まれたものみたいです。 片刃の直刀タイプは以前より http://member.nifty.ne.jp/bintaro/touken/kabututi.htm こういうタイプがあるんですが。 中国の言っている長刀とはこういう ものなのでしょうか?中国の現物が見つかると良いのですが。
>>562 >http://koreanhistoryproject.org/Ket/Essays/C03/E0302.htm >花朗道の話らしい。どう見ても胡散臭そうですが。 >どこからこんな資料持ってきたんだ? http://www.hwarangdo.com/index2.htmこのWorld Hwa Rang Do Associationの サイト群や>>471あたりの資料をお互いに使い回してるんだと思う。おおもとは 韓国の歴史学者が適当な史料を探し出してきて妄想ふくらませて書いた論文なん だろうね。ここ参照http://lovely.millto.net/~seikakudou/faran/f-list.html 武道としての花郎道をやってる連中は武士道にある種のシンパシーを持ってる ようだけど、、、上でだれかが言ってたがそのうち起源論争をいどんできそうだなあ。 半島から逃げてきた連中を関東とか各地に入植させてやったのに、そのあたりを逆に 武士の起源とか言い出さないことを祈るのみ。恩を仇で返すなよ。 http://www.hwarangdo.dk/eng.htm Hwarang Doョ - The Way of the Flowering Knight - is a Korean martial art with roots more that 1800 years back in history. Hwarang Do was originally practiced by Korean elite troops@` whose armed and unarmed techniques made them feared and admired all over Asia. Hwarang Do has since been preserved from generation to generation of especially chosen Buddhist monks and has spread across the world during the last 35 years. The Hwarang warriors had much in common with the later Japanese samurai. Both classes consisted of professional@` noble warriors who prefectioned their martial art to the outmost. Both classes was also subject to moral and ethical norms which limited the use of their knowledge and abilities: Korea had Hwarang Do and Japan had Bushido. Just like the original Bushido@` Hwarang Do was created as a military system@` designed for the battlefield@` not for sport or competitions.
>>558 >http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/operatic/739/hdgequip.htm >ムカツクし曲刀で長刀なのはコリア発みたいな嘘こいてるが、日本を認めても >いる。海東剣道。なにがオリジナルなんだろうね。ここも。 下のサイトはどうも海東剣道よりなんだけど、海東の国粋主義者からは大韓を意地悪く見 ている構図が浮かび上がってくる。花郎道と海東剣道は考え方が似てるな。どこにオリジナル なものがあるのか判然としないとこもそっくり。藁 http://www.concentric.net/%7Esdseong/kmar.vid.hdkd.htm Haedong Kumdo Sword Art From Ancient Korea Many martial artists believe that kumdo@` an art undeniably similar to the Japanese art of kendo@` is a truly Korean sword art. Yet most Korean kumdo instructors will readily acknowledge that their art is merely a recent Japanese import with few or no modifications. They tell how both Korean and Japanese swordsmen train and compete under the same set of rules@` then proudly announce that Korean practitioners give their Japanese counterparts a run for their money in tournaments. There is some evidence to suggest that the relationship between the Korea Kumdo Association and the Korea Haedong Kumdo Association is not very cordial. It probably involves official government recognition and support@` and regular kumdo appears to have won for the time being. Consequently@` the haedong kumdo people are quite eager to let foreigners know about their art@` which they seek to promote in a country dominated by regular kumdo. In comparing the two popular Korean sword arts@` it is interesting to mention the "bon-guk kum-bup" form. Kumdo students learn the form@` which is claimed to come from the old Mu Yea Do Bo Tong Ji book@` and it bears little resemblance to the rest of the art's techniques. Haedong kumdo students do not learn bon-guk kum-bup@` but the echniques of the form appear very similar to those of haedong kumdo. http://www.concentric.net/%7Esdseong/kmar.vid.kd.htm Kumdo: A Short History of Korean Swordsmanship Yet Korean kumdo is undeniably similar@` some might argue identical@` to Japanese kendo. Detractors@` however@` say the bon-guk kum-bup form is merely a modern re-creation of the movements described in the Mu Yea Do Bo Tong Ji textbook@` which is said to date from the 1700s. Obviously@` more research needs to be done concerning the relationship between Korean kumdo and Japanese kendo@` as well as other Korean and Japanese sword arts.
>575 武士道だけじゃだけじゃなく、忍者も朴るつもりだぞ、あぶねえ。 http://www.hwarangdoeastcoast.com/help.shtml What is Sulsa? Sulsa were the special forces of the Hwa Rang Warriors and carried out similar duties as the Japanese Ninja. They specialized in intelligence gathering@` assassination@` and survival tactics. Unlike the Ninja however@` the most important asset of the Sulsa was the ideal of Hwal Bop@` which encouraged the warrior to save lives@` rather than take them. They believed if one was able to kill@` one should be able to heal as well. In addition to special weapons and special hand to hand combat techniques@` the Sulsa specialized in Un Shin Bop (concealment tactics)@` Jham Bok Sul (camouflage tactics)@` Jham Ip Sul (infiltration and exfiltration tactics)@` Bo Bop (stalking and proper movement)@` and Shin Gong (mental power).
In this family tree you can see how influential Hwa Rang Do has been on Korean Martial Arts: http://www.inficad.com/~azhwarangdo/famtree.html ここもむかつくなあ。絵を表示してみてくれ。 李朝の花郎道(ねえよう)が柔術とテッキョン>空手の起源なわけかよ。 こんなむちゃくちゃまちしらしやがって。
花郎道は自分らの国際登録商標であり、何とか花郎、花郎何とかを 使うな、歴史の捏造はするなと喚いているくせに、何だこりゃ。 http://www.hwarangdo.com/hrd1.htm This Hwarangdo system eventually spread to Japan and was very influential in the development of the Japanese Samurai system and Bushido (Korean-Musado@` this is the moral mentality of the Hwarang and samurai). During this time much of the Japanese culture originated from the Korean kingdoms of Silla@` Koguryo and Packche. Along with social customs@` martial aspects were passed across the sea to Japan. So the counterpart of the Silla Hwarang was the Japanese Shogun@` and the counterpart of the Silla Rangdo was the Japanese shogun's soldiers (their samurai). It is also thought that the family of the founder of Jujitsu was also connected to the Hwarang warriors. The name of this "Jujitsu " founder is "Shinna Sabro "@` and the Korean pronunciation of his name is "Silla Samrang. " There were many Koreans who moved to other countries@` and because they still felt strong ties to their homeland they used this kingdom's name as their maiden name. The meaning of this founder's name is "Silla third man@`" so it is thought that this founder's ancestors came from the kingdom of "Silla ". Japanese soft styles such as Judo (mostly a sport version of throwing and chocking)@` Daitoryu Yawara (same as Aiki Jujitsu - mostly throwing@` joint manipulation@` and grappling)@` and Aikido (mostly the use of an opponent's strength@` and joint manipulation) were the same skills that evolved from Jujitsu. But@` in Japan the Daitoryu yawara (Aiki Jujitsu) and Jujitsu name has been disbanded@` and presently these branch schools are called Judo and Aikido schools. However@` the Jujitsu that has become poular in present times is called Brazilian Jujitsu and is mostly focused on grappling and ground locks. All of these Japanese soft style skills share many similarities with the soft style "Yusool" skills of the ancient secret combat skills of the Hwarang which are called "Um Yang Kwon " (Yusool-soft skills and Kangsool-hard skills). Because of these many similarities and the meaning of the founder's name@` it is thought that Jujitsu's roots lie in the Hwarang tradition of Korea.
しかも、ここのGUESTBOOKにはこんなウソの歴史に誇りを感じるとカキコする コリアン2世のバカがいる。 http://mercury.beseen.com/guestbook/d/181571/guestbook.html I'm very facinated about the story behind the art of Hwa Rang Do. I have recently started learning Tae Soo Do and this web site has been a great help for me to know more history about what I'm learning. I have a better understanding and I am very interested in this style. My mother is from Korea. I have wondered a lot about if her ancestors knew this style. By learning@` I feel I am continuing something important that my mother's family probably part took in the past. Her family history goes way back to the Yi Dynasty. It makes me feel more confident in myself and I feel there is much for me to gain by learning Hwa Rang Do. Thank you again for all the information!
武藝新譜(武芸新譜)(1759年) に★Japanese sword★の記述があるというしね。 Most of the older texts which survive label the weapons used as "Japanese swords" だとしたら、もっと古い書物で倭刀 の記述が他に沢山ありそうですな。 武藝諸譜(武芸諸譜)(1598年) two handed sword@` ・・・・これも日本刀法かも しれない。そう書けば良い。 This book was a compilation of techniques for six different weapons@` all learned from the Chinese. 紀效新書の編集版に過ぎないのだからこれは 倭刀法についてだろうな。元ネタで日本刀や 日本刀法の知識を得たのに、なんで武芸図譜 通知で、新羅まで遡った剣法が出来るんだ? 時系列に反してるじゃん。なんでそれまで 本国剣法に関する記述がなかったのよ。新羅 時代のものだろ。あの人達って昔からペテン が好きだったの? あくまでも後知恵の倭刀法の亜流ですよ。
>>602 花郎道って太手道とか忍術擬きとか色々手広くやってるみたいだけど。。 ビデオといえば、海東剣道からこんなんが。。。いやな予感がする。Haedong Kumdo: Korean Sword Art http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1880336197/o/qid=965009223/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_v_1_1/002-4958184-7344822 Video Description While the popular Korean martial arts like taekwondo and tang soo do have spread around the world@` generations of warriors have quietly practiced more traditional Korean Combat arts@` preserving centuries old techniques in virtual secrecy. Now@` you can discover what few people outside of Korea know-the rich tradition of Korean warrior arts like ssireum@` kumdo and archery. ...... Martial Arts Video Reviews@` May 1999 I don't know about you@` but when I think of the martial arts and swords I think of the Japanese Samurai first@` Japanese Ninjas@` then the Chinese. I often wondered if their was anyone else to add to the list. Now@` after seeing this video@` you can definitely add the Korean's. Honestly@` that surprised me. After years of doing TKD@` with several different instructors@` never did any of them mention that the Korean's had a sword art. I guess every now and then@` even those of us who've had 20 years in various arts@` learn something new!
>>608 >まさかブラジリアン柔術のルーツも我が国のものとか言っているのだろうか? 花郎道がそう言ってるよ。>>581 However@` the Jujitsu that has become poular in present times is called BRAZILIAN Jujitsu and is mostly focused on grappling and ground locks. All of these Japanese soft style skills share many similarities with the soft style "Yusool" skills of the ancient secret combat skills of the Hwarang which are called "Um Yang Kwon " (Yusool-soft skills and Kangsool-hard skills). Because of these many similarities and the meaning of the founder's name@` it is thought that Jujitsu's roots lie in the Hwarang tradition of Korea.
http://japanesesword.homestead.com/files/nihonto.htm のhttp://www.uni-ulm.de/~s_tgantn/aikido/text/node2.html "Japanese 'legend' says that the gifted sword maker Amakuni was the one to develop the classically styled Japanese sword. Long@` single edged and curved with a two handed grip. Amakuni is thought to have lived in about 720 AD. Prior to this time@` the swords were developed from copies of Chinese and Korean designs." --
sanming leeもここから引用してたんだ。 日本文化のサイトにも侵入してたんだね。 都合のいい情報だけ持ち出すと。 Straight@` single or double edged@` and usually two handed grips. 後に続くけど、two handed grips.は間違いじゃないの?
>>612 >Straight@` single or double edged@` and usually two handed grips. THE JAPANESE SWORD INDEXのリンクするサイトは全部は見たわけじゃないが、 結構優良なとこがおおいとおもうけど、上のサイトの断定はちょっといただけ ないよね。Amakuniのグリップは両手で握れるだけの長さがあるのかなあ? しかし両手剣法の文献なり絵巻ものなりの初出のいつなのか。
武藝圖譜通志(1759年)にあるという本国剣法ってのは百済王を刺殺した際の剣舞の のことか。旧スレにでてた大韓剣道協会サイトでは武藝圖譜通志が東国輿地勝覽から 引用したといってたな。 http://www.hwarangdo.com/hwarang2.htm Muyedobo T'ongji@` vol.3. Translated by Chong@` Ai Li. Muyedobo T'ongji was compiled in 1789 and is thus very late as a Silla period source. I have not been able to find the story about Hwang Ch'ang in any other source. ★"Native Sword" (Pon'gukkom)★ or "New Sword" (Shin'gom)@` to be carried on the waist like "Sharp Sword" (Yodo). Travelers says that the sword was invented and practiced by a Silla Hwarang@` Hwang Ch'ang. Legend says@` that he went to Paekche when he was seven years old and preformed a sword dance there@` attracting a multitude of spectators. Hearing the rumor@` the king of Paekche called him on the floor. Availing himself of this opportunity@` he stabbed the king. He was caught and killed by angry Paekche people. Hearing the news@` Silla people mourned his death and started sword dancing by themselves with a mask modelled after his image. This dance have been passed on until today (AD 1789). Hwang Ch'ang was one of the famous Silla Hwarang. (Muyedobo T'ongji's note: The King and officials of Silla were perplexed by the problem of finding the talented people. They then chose goodlooking men@` made them put on make-up and called them Hwarang followers. A whole group gathered and therefore the wise men could select the good ones among them and put them in positions of service.) Like the legend of Sullang and Yongnang (Muyedobo T'ongji's note: According to the legend the four Silla Hwarang Sullang@` Namnang@` Yongnang and Ansang visited the Ch'ongsok-chong area) Hwang Ch'ang Rang and several thousand Hwarang Followers (Hwarang do) had exerted themselves with loyalty and trust. Moreover@` Silla's neighboring country@` Japan (Wa)@` must have received their "sword dance equipment" (sword techniques/"samurai swords") from Hwang Ch'ang Rang and yet this cannot be examined today. Since Hwang Ch'ang Rang was the founder of Native Sword@` Mao Yuan-yi of China presumed that the method of using the sword (Kombop) was acquired from Choson - after it was compared with several books from the western regions. Then@` in that case Choson is stealing her own techniques back@` but if one compare with the versions in the official history books of Japan@` then Choson is stealing Chinese techniques. No matter who is stealing and who has been handing down techniques@` now several hundred years have passed since Mao Yuan-yi lived and therefore@` who gave techniques to the others and who received the knowledge is not really known.
つづき 武藝新譜(1759年)>>569だけじゃなく、武藝圖譜通志(1759年)にも日本刀の記載がある。 さらには武藝圖譜通志は中国、日本の本を参照しているってことか。 Why didn't our own people hand down and train the techniques by themselves but instead wait for Mao Yuen-yi's book Wubeizhi (On Military Preparedness) and first then again start to pass it down in order to practice it? Now it cannot be known. As said in the beginning@` this was Mao's presumption and today we have included this little discussion here in the section on Native Sword." Then follows 12 pages of "notes" where battle stances@` techniques etc. are explained with illustrations. In "general note" and "general illustration" the connecting movements of stances in battle are detailed in three pages of diagrams and illustrations. John Della Pia@` M.A. has a translation of the techniques with pictures. "In the initial period of the Choson dynasty@` full attention was paid to military preparedness and training. However@` the military alert was slackened in favor of civil affairs as threats or war from outside gradually diminished. However@` after the Japanese invasion in 1592 and the Manchurian invasion in 1636@` Korean kings were mindful of military preparedness even in times of peace. ★The Muyedobo T'ongji★ (Illustrated Survey of the Martial Arts) was compiled by order of King Chongjo (1776-1800). In 1789 the king ordered the survey of esoteric books of olden times and to experiment with the findings through actual performance and demonstration by officers and soldiers so as to rectify any ensuing discrepancies. When the book was finalized it contained 24 skills@` such as: crescent sword@` paired sword@` spearheaded cudgel@` fist-fighting techniques@` ★japanese sword★@` long spear@` equestrian skills etc. The bibliography of Muyedobo T'ongji lists a total of 145 titles of books from Korea@` China and Japan. The list includes about 15 titles of military manuals@` scripts@` histories@` bibliographies@` various writings@` dictionaries@` medical books@` agricultural books and novels."
http://home.flash.net/~judymo/geomdo/origins.html The Muye Tobo T'ongji The Jixiao Xinshu was a text on wuyi (Chinese martial arts) written by the Ming General Qi Jiquang in 1561@` and history suggests that the Koreans acquired the document by dubious means during the latter stages of the Imjin War (1592-1598)@` which was fought with the assistance of the Ming against the Japanese forces of Hideyoshi Toyotomi. �(It is doubtful that the Ming would have freely given up such an important military document to the Koreans@` especially when a mere 36 years later@` in 1636@` the Ch'ing (Manchu) Chinese forced the capitulation of King Injo and demanded Korean troops to assist in the subjugation of the Ming.)� The Sok Pyungjang Tosul was probably based on a copy of the Jixiao Xinshu@` while the Muye Tobo T'ongji@` composed in 1790 and containing sections on armed and unarmed combat@` as well as cavalry and infantry tactics@` is a copy of the Sok Pyungjang Tosul.� The sword forms used in modern Haedong Kumdo were gleaned from those contained within the Muye Tobo T'ongji.
http://members.aol.com/torm1358/dissert.htm#Muye%20tobo%20t'ongji King ChOngjo(r:1776-1800) ordered the compilation of the military techniques then in use. Yi TOkmu@` Pak Chega and Paek Tongsu were tasked with publishing the book@` which they did in 1790 as ★the Muye tobo t'ongji in four volumes. The book is compiled from earlier works@` the Muye chebo of 1598@` and the Muye sinbo@` written in 1759. ★ In all@` 24 different skills are described@` from sword to pike. Not only were many of these techniques done on foot@` but many were also applied to horse. From the initial Korean sword@` archery and staff techniques@` were added six new weapons@` chronicled in the Muye chebo. Later@` a further six techniques were developed during YOngjo's reign (contained in the Muye sinbo). Lastly@` a further six skills were added@` with many of the existing skills being extended to the horse@` during ChOngjo's reign@` to make 24 in total. These skills were known as kyOkcha-chibOp(method for [lit. of] a piercing attack). That is@` state martial arts appear to have been updated and developed during from the 16th to the 18th centuries. These techniques used traditional weapons@` and were developed during the period when there was little official@` or local@` interest in the military. That is@` it appears that a small core kept the martial arts alive. The main innovation@` during this period@` seems to have been the extension of many of the techniques to being practised from a horse (see plate c & d).
つづき、この英文晦渋だよん、よくわからん。 Recently some of the techniques in this manual have been resurrected under the name of KyOngdang (though@` unfortunately@` not those to do with the horse). However@` there appears to be different interpretations of the moves. For instance@` if one compares the original print of a pattern called ponkukkOm (see plate e)@` with two interpretations (see plates f & g ) it can be seen that they are quite different. The original print shows a medium-length curved blade@` such as a katana@` while the modern renderings opt for a Chinese style@` straight-bladed sword (Kim KwangsOk) and a very-long sword (changgOm) by the KyOngdang practitioners. PonkukkOm is supposed to be Hwang Ch'ang's legendary Silla sword art. If this art has been handed down from Silla times@` then it would presumably would have been intended for use with a Chinese-style sword because the curved bladed sword only appeared after the Imjin War. Kim@` then@` appears to be attempting to recreate the original form of the pattern. However@` by the time the muye tobo t'ongji was published@` the pattern had been adapted for use with a katana. This would suggest that the sword arts had@` for a long while@` been adapted to ★use Japanese-style swords. ★The kyOngdang style has tried to follow the instructions in the Muye tobo T'ongji. As can be seen@` ★ChosOn swords seem to have become curved (see plate h) to various degrees@` relflecting lessons learned from the Imjin War.★ It is unclear@` though@` why the kyOngdang style uses such a long blade for all the techniques@` when it appears that a shorter blade is intended. Could this be a legacy of the Japanese Imperial period@` in that it is not felt appropriate to use Japanese swords with a@` supposedly@` traditional Korean martial art? However@` the Muye tobo t'ongji does not just record the ChosOn systems used@` but also includes sections on Chinese and Japanese martial arts. For instance@` the chedokkOm was one of the techniques brought by the Ming general Yi Yongson during the Imjin War.82 The empty-hand techniques@` called kwonbOp@` are also based upon Chinese techniques.83 If so@` then they probably replaced subak@` if it had survived to this period. While waegOm represents the techniques the Japanese samurai used during the Imjin war.
Plate I further illustrates the problems of interpretation of the manual. This page@` from the Seoul' university's kyOngdang club's manual@` gives the original Chinese (bottom right)@` the original mixed script (bottom left)@` and the modern interpretation (top)@` which is@` incidentally@` different from both Sim UsOng's and Kim's books. This further confuses attempts to interpret the Muye tobo T'ongji. As well as written explanations@` the Muye Tobo T'ongji also gives two types of diagrams for the major patterns. Examples can be seen in plates J and K. Plate J illustrates the kwonbOp empty-hand techniques. As well as the picture representations@` the Chinese names of the moves are also given in a separate diagram. Plate K shows a pattern using a Chinese halberd.
>>666-677 http://members.aol.com/torm1358/dissert.htm#Muye%20tobo%20t'ongji 朝鮮の剣法には壬辰倭乱以後に日本刀を取り入れて刀が曲がってきたとか 書いてあるね。朝鮮通信史の護衛兵の刀は曲がっているとか出てる。 Muye Tobo T'ongji and T'aekkyOn The regular Korean emissaries to Japan have been recorded in scrolls. By examining these scrolls it is possible to make some suggestions about the favoured weapons of the retinue's guards. It would appear that the favoured weapon of the Korean guards was the bow. Some guards are carrying swords slung low across the back@` but its hard to tell if they are the same size as the Japanese katana or longer. The blades do appear to be curved though. Most of the Korean guards are riding horses@` suggesting that they were yangban. 李朝期の武術の訓練と発展の証拠を見つけるようがんばったそうなんだが、 中国、日本に民間武芸も道場も武芸者もごろごろいた記録があるわけで、 苦労しなきゃ証拠が集まらないとはなさけないし、逆に大した発展が無かった 証拠だろが。 Conclusion This paper has tried to examine the history of the ChosOn dynasty with the view of finding evidence for the practice and development of martial arts. Where no direct evidence existed@` the author has attempted to extrapolate from the military capability of ChosOn@` and considering local attempts at defence when faced by outside aggression. After briefly reviewing the evidence for martial arts in late-KoryO@` analysis of the changes brought by the first ChosOn kings was attempted. It would appear that existing martial arts@` unsurprisingly@` continued to be practised in the new dynasty. Evidence was found among the accounts of internal troubles@` and Korean successes at reducing the waegu attacks.
恥を知る韓国人。しかし、ここ欧州韓国学の掲示板でも被害者意識 炸裂のトンデモ君が一杯いるなあ。 http://www.mailbase.ac.uk/lists/korean-studies/2000-07/0120.html Subject: Taekwondo From: Michael Choi Date: 20 Jul 2000 - 10:25 BST Eee gad! Not Taekwondo! ★To refer to Taekwondo in Korean Studies is taboo and in some respects@` it should be. Anyway@` Lance's posting motivated me to discuss Taekwondo@` Korea's "cultural export" among academics. Is Taekwondo really Korean? The World Taekwondo Federation (WTF) and its "headquarters" Kukkiwon (KKW) maintain that Taekwondo is Korea's indigineous martial art@` a claim that is tenuous@` at best. On another posting that I receive@` namely the Dojang Digest@` this question gets revisited. WTF/KKW constantly sight Koguryo Tomb Murals@` Muye Tobo Tongji@` and Guardian Statues in Sokkuram Grotto as evidence of Taekwondo. Without getting into the details@` I believe that this is inconclusive evidence because most do not specifically site to uniquely Korean martial arts. Secondly@` the practice of martial arts took a serious decline when Confucianism was adopted as the state ideology by King Sejong. What is accepted as a Korean martial art practiced at the time@` namely Taek Kyon@` was banned by King Sejong as he deemed it too violent. I saw a documentary on Taek Kyon the other day and it showed a recreation of a traditional match. Yep@` it's pretty violent@` fans get rowdy and start throwing rocks at each other@` kinda like bar-room brawl contests. If I was king@` I would ban it@` too. This does not get to the most serious issue of Taekwondo's Korean origin. ★Actually "Taekwondo" did not exist in the Korean lexicon until the 1950's when many of the Karate schools in Seoul decided to "nationalize" their gyms. After the departure of Japan in 1945@` Koreans who studied Karate in Japan started teaching in Korea and opened gyms@` calling their styles Kung Soo Do@` Tang Soo Do@` Kwon Bup@` etc. ★which all correspond to the Sino-Japanese characters Kara-te-do@` Kara-te-do@` Kem-po. 中略 Sadly enough@` WTF/KKW does not admit it the Japan's part of developing Taekwondo and probably never will for public relation purposes. It's sad to see myth blurring reality.
海東剣道関連サイトは為になりますね。 彼等の剣法もshoddy mixture of japanese and chinese kendo でしかないと思いますけどね。一応、日本刀や両手剣は文化の伝播だ と捉えてるわけだ。はるかにマシではありますね。 海東剣道だって韓国人なんだから、彼等の言説を利用すれば クムド側も文句つけにくいかもね。海東剣道にも都合が良かったり して。 671さんの本は日本語訳出ないかな。
このHPに出てくる剣豪Puryerang Hyojong-Rang とかって殆ど架空の人物?時代設定すら架空? これじゃあアニメのキャラクターを実在の人物として研究してるのと 同じじゃん。流浪にケンシン?とかああ言うの。時代考証が出来てない分 あちらの方が逝っちゃってるかも。 そもそも韓国の最古の書物が12世紀のものだからその時点でからり怪しいのになあ。 The first translation is from Samguk Sagi (compiled by a Confucian general) and the second is from Samguk Yusa (complied by a monk). 本の名前ではあるのかなぁ。一体何時の本だ?
Muyedobo T'ongji was compiled in 1789 and is thus very late as a Silla period source. I have not been able to find the story about Hwang Ch'ang in any other source. ここではちゃんと年数を入れてる。武芸図譜通知ってこういうお話みたいのも 入ってるのかしら。1789年に明らかになった1000年前の人物って何?単なる 物語でしょ?
http://members.aol.com/torm1358/dissert.htm#Muye%20tobo%20t'ongji ここって他にも色々リンクがされてて有用ですよ。例えば、 http://members.aol.com/torm1358/KyOngDang.htm http://members.aol.com/torm1358/dissertcritique.htm 武芸新譜は現存しないとか、武芸図譜通志には前期と後期でempty-hand technique called Kwonbopのイラストに差違があるとか、武備志のは直刀で武芸図譜通志のは 日本刀を使った図であるとか。全部読んでないけど目についたとこ転載。 I also mentioned previously that it is thought that some Japanese techniques were adopted by the ChosOn military. This@` of course@` shows that the ChosOn military were conscious of their duty and included what where recognisably superior fighting techniques. It should also be remembered that the ChosOn forces probably obtained many katanas during the long war and so these provided a ready supply of swords. As related above@` King YOngjo also reformed the government and one of the books produced during his reign was the Muye sinbo. ★Unfortunately@` this manual has been lost. However@` from the references to it@` it is clear that this manual recorded the Japanese techniques. To summerise then@` Pak Chega had at least three military manuals to draw upon. These were@` the old (Ming) techniques contained in the Chi-hsiao hsin-shu and Wubeich'i and the Japanese techniques recorded in the Muye sinbo. It it is important to note at this point that Pak was not a military man@` he was a scholar. He was interested in modernising the military because that was important for the defence of the nation@` but he was at the same time proselytizing the new Ch'ing learning. His knowledge of military matters@` if he had any@` probably came via the classics. Bearing this in mind what@` therefore@` does the Muye tobo t'ongji actually tell us about military techniques during the late ChosOn period. At first glance@` one finds references to the above mentioned manuals and quotes from them. The illustrations closely resemble those found in the Ming manuals. That is@` the manuals appear scholarly@` and therefore perhaps casting doubt on the idea that the manual reflects military practises of the time. However@` a closer examination shows differences between the illustrations and text contained in the Muye tobo t'ongji compared to the earlier manuals. For instance@` the illustrations and text for the empty-hand technique called Kwonbop (which is originially described in the Chi-hsiao hsin-shu) are in a different order in the latter manual and include additional illustrations. ★Also@` a set of techniques called Yedo which are illustrated in the Wubeich'i as using a strainght sword appear in the Muye tobo t'ongji with a katana. This suggests that the ChosOn military had adapted and changed the Ming techniques. Importantly@` the Muye tobo t'ongji also contains techniques which are not r ecorded in the Ming manuals. Some of these techniques would seem to have survived from earlier purely native techniques@` such as PonkukkOm. The horse techniques also seem to be illustrated uniquely in the Muye tobo t'ongji although there is no doubt that both the Japanese and Chinese military had long used horses.
>Muyedobo T'ongji@` vol.3. Translated by Chong@` Ai Li. Muyedobo T'ongji >was compiled in 1789 and is thus very late as a Silla period source. >very late as a Silla period 武芸図譜通知は李朝後期の作で、新羅の時代から相当時が経っている。 >I have not been able to find the story about Hwang Ch'ang in any other source. しかもHwang Ch'angに関する記述はこれにしかない・・・・歴史的資料として、物凄く怪しいと 言う事を認めているのね。 >★"Native Sword" (Pon'gukkom)★ or "New Sword" (Shin'gom)@` to be carried >on the waist like "Sharp Sword" (Yodo).Travelers says that the sword was >invented and practiced by a Silla Hwarang@` Hwang Ch'ang. ネーティブソード、新刀って腰に帯刀していたらしいが、これって侍の事言いたいのかな。 帯刀するのは日本独特?暗に日本を意識してるのは分るけど。 このNative Swordは日本刀だと言いたい訳? >Travelers says that the sword was invented and practiced by a Silla Hwarang@` >Hwang Ch'ang. Legend says@` that he went to Paekche when he was seven years old 7歳?7歳で刀鍛冶だったの? 美少年の兵士ってなんかトルコのイエニチェリ軍団ぽいですね。いったい百済のどの王が 暗殺されたんだ?
> Hearing the news@` Silla people mourned his death and started sword >dancing by themselves with a mask modelled after his image. >This dance have been passed on until today (AD 1789). This dance have been passed on until today (AD 1789).・・・・本当かね。今もあるんですか? >Moreover@` Silla's neighboring country@` Japan (Wa)@` must have received >their "sword dance equipment" (sword techniques/"samurai swords") from >Hwang Ch'ang Rang and yet this cannot be examined today. must have・・・・に違いないって(笑)(sword techniques/"samurai swords")やっぱり日本刀って言いたいのね。いつの話か 知らないけど、百済が滅亡したのは660年あるいは663年だそうだから、推して 知るべしですね。 日本刀の形が確立したのってせいぜい10世紀中頃らしいし。本国剣法が日本刀 持って踊ってたのは上記の憶測から来てたのかな。だとすると200年前からこの 民族は昔からあんなんだったって事になりますね。Hwang Ch'ang Rangのsamurai swordがタイムスリップして伝わったとか言いたいかもしれんが、日本刀形勢には 段階があるみたいだし。
>Since Hwang Ch'ang Rang was the founder of Native Sword@` Mao Yuan-yi >of China presumed that the method of using the sword (Kombop) was >acquired from Choson - after it was compared with several >books from the western regions. Then@` in that case Choson is stealing > her own techniques back@` but if one compare with the versions in >the official history books of Japan@` then Choson is stealing Chinese >techniques. No matter who is stealing and who has been handing down >techniques@` now several hundred years have passed since Mao >Yuan-yi lived and therefore@` who gave techniques to the others and >who received the knowledge is not really known. Mao Yuan-yi of China これって武備志の茅 元儀<ボウ@` ゲンギ> の事ですか? クムドサイトではMo Won Euiでしたね。Wubeizhiと後にあるから武備志の 作者の事ですね。どうも中国→朝鮮ではなく、朝鮮→中国って言いたいみたい だけど?Native Swordって言うのは一体全体どういうものだと言いたいのだ? 武芸図譜通知で朝鮮→日本 武備志で朝鮮→中国だと言いたいのかな。 あれれ?武芸図譜通知って1789年のものですよ。Hwang Ch'ang の情報 はこの本しかないと書いてあるんだから・・・・Since Hwang Ch'ang Rang was the founder of Native Sword@` Mao Yuan-yi of China presumed てなるわけないでしょう。茅 元儀<ボウ@` ゲンギ>は武芸図譜 通知は知らないのに。素人に論破されてどうすんだろう。そもそもNative Swordってどんなものだと言いたいんだ?日本刀なら倭刀として、宋の 時代から日本のものとして認識されてるぞ。 >after the Japanese invasion in 1592 and the Manchurian invasion > in 1636@` Korean kings were mindful of military preparedness 1592以降に中国の紀効新書に頼った事は載せないんですね。その編集版武芸諸諸も。 武芸図譜通知なんて危機が去ったずっと後なのに、mindful of military preparedness って嘘過ぎ。 >★japanese sword@`★ 武芸図譜通知には日本刀の記述があり、 >145 titles of books from Korea@` China and Japan. 日本の本を参考文献にしてるらしい。日本刀の祖はHwang Ch'angなのに日本刀と 区別するわけ?本国剣法では思いっきり日本刀使って、Hwang Ch'angの 剣舞をやってるんじゃないの?矛盾してますなぁ。
The King and officials of Silla were perplexed by the problem of finding the talented people. They then chose goodlooking men@` made them put on make-up and called them Hwarang followers. A whole group gathered and therefore the wise men could select the good ones among them and put them in positions of service.)
>697 こんな感じですかね? >新羅の王と役人。。 ってのは百済や任那、高句麗との戦争に必要なんでしょうね。 >彼等を花朗の追従者と呼んだ 彼等を花郎の郎徒と呼んだ >全部のグループが集まり、従って、賢者は彼等の中から、優れた者を選べ、 >従事する状況に置く事が出来た・・・・・? 全員集合した中から、賢き者達(花郎)は優秀な郎徒を選んで自分の従者に 取り立てることができた。 いきなりthe wise men がでてくるんじゃ何のことだかわかんないよねえ。 英文が変なのでは?以下参照。 http://www.hwarangdo.com/hrd1.htm Hwarang - "Flower man" The title given to the leaders of the youth group from the ancient kingdom of Silla. This title was only received by the youth of royal family members@` and not civilians. Rangdo -"Fellows" The title of the Hwarang's fellows. These people were the students disciples@` and soldiers of the Hwarang@` and all came from the civilian class. Hwarangdo - "Flower knights" As a group of people@` the Hwarang (leaders) and Rangdo (fellows)@` were also sometimes called by the name Hwarangdo. The "DO" suffix used here means a group of people. So the term Hwarangdo means a "group of flower men." Who were the Hwarang? One of the most significant acts by King Chinhung was the development of the Hwarang system within his military service. This Hwarang system was organized by groups of youths who went to mountains@` rivers and other places of natural beauty to learn to develop human morality@` loyalty@` and mental and emotional control along with their combat skills. Through this development of strong mental@` physical and spiritual training they were taught to act as models of their culture and chivalrous warriors. They were Silla's elite warriors. They were called Hwarang (Flower Knights) and Rangdo (a Hwarang's disciple or soldier). These were young men who exemplified the warrior-intellectual that influenced the Silla kingdom's history for many centuries. A 13th century monk recorded that the Silla kingdom had "issued a decree and chose boys from good royal families who were of good morals and renamed them Hwarang (title of leader or General). Hwarang Sor Won was to be admitted as a Kuksun (Dae Jang Gun or head General). This was the beginning of the Hwarang (JanGun-General) and Rangdo (SaByoung -soldiers) special integration within the military system. During this time these warriors were called Hwarangdo (Hwarang and Rangdo group of people) which means the flowering knights and their warriors.
>>654-656 >「テコンド現代史」(1999.3韓国ポギョン文化社発行) 「テコンド現代史」これも実はパクリじゃねえのか? もっと前に外人が色々書いてるだろが。 STUDENT FORUM from Korea Journal@` Winter@` 1995. Courtesy University of Montana Big Sky Taekwondo Association Problems in the Identity and Philosophy of T'aegwondo and Their Historical Causes By: Steven D. Capener http://www.bstkd.com/CAPENER.1.HTM "People and Events of T'aekwondo's Formative Years" by Dakin Burdick@` 1996 http://www.indiana.edu/~iutkd/history/tkdhist.html 大東流だの、テコンドなどで妙なちゃちゃいれてるのがいるが、 別の意図を感じるなあ。臭うだよ。 韓国人にもちゃんとしたのがいる、日本のにも変なのがあるだろ。って いいたげに聞こえてしょうがねえぞ。 何があろうとKumdoは絶対許さんぞ。
7百年の伝統があってどうして日本と同じ形なんだ?変じゃねえか。http://www.nova-ici.co.jp/station/snapshot/snap9904-2.html What are the basic elements of a Japanese garden?日本庭園の基本的な要素は何ですか? The Japanese garden is a combination of rocks@` moss@` water@` and trees which reflect the natural world of mountains@` oceans@` and rivers. 日本庭園は石、コケ、水、木などの取り合わせで山、海、川などの自然界を表すものです。 What are its origins?その起源は何ですか Its fundamental ideals are said to have been influenced by the transfer of Buddhism from the mainland (Korea). 基本的な原則は、大陸(韓国)から伝えられてきた仏教に影響されて生まれたものと考えられ ています。 When did the bonsai tradition begin?盆栽の伝統はいつ頃から始まったのですか? The art of pruning and caring for miniature potted plants started in China more than 1@` 000 years ago@` and was brought to Japan during the Kamakura period. Pines are commonly used with this as well. 盆栽をせん定したり育てていく技術は中国で1@`000年以上前に始まり、鎌倉時代に日本にもたら されました。盆栽にも「松」を使うことが多いです。 http://www.inh.co.jp/~hayasida/report13.html 中尾佐助「花と木の文化史」(岩波新書)には、盆栽の変遷と発達についての記述があります。 「盆栽は、ハラキリ、カミカゼとともに国際的な日本語となっているが、盆栽の源は中国にある。 唐代に盆景としてあらわれ、それ以来中国に現在まで伝えられている。盆景は鉢の中に植物を植え るが、石をそえることが多く、奇石だけを鉢に立てたものもある。これらは盆石とよばれる。中国 盆栽は現在まで盆景、盆石が大きい部分を占めてきた。現在、中国では、何本もの枝をくねくねと 曲げる「鮹造り」型の盆栽がかなり多くみられる。日本では中国の影響で、鎌倉時代の絵巻物に盆 景、盆石がみられ、また、「鉢の木」型の盆栽も登場してくる。現在、日本の盆栽はほとんど全部 が「自然美盆栽」という型になっているが、これが完成し普及したのは明治になってからである。」 In "Hana to Ki no Bunkashi" by Nakao Sasuke@` Iwanami New books@` we can see the description on the transition and the development of Bonsai. "Bonsai is already an international word as well as harakiri and kamikaze@` but its origin comes from China. It seems to have appeared as Bonkei in the To era (618-907)@` since then it has been handed down to the present day. In the way of Bonkei they plant the tree in the pot@` frequently adding stones to it. And some are composed of only strange stones in the pot@` which they call Bonseki. Bonkei and Bonseki account for most part of Chinese Bonsai. At present in China we can often see Tako-tsukuri (octopus-like method) type of Bonsai composed of many curved branches. In old Japan@` Bonkei and Bonseki can be seen in the picture scrolls of the Kamakura period (1192-1333) under the influence of Chinese culture. At present the type of "Natural Beauty Bonsai" accounts for almost all of Japanese Bonsai@` and it is since the Meiji era that this type was perfected and has predominated." (my translation)
http://www.bonsaisite.com/history1.html A Detailed History of Bonsai... Bonsai first appeared in China over a thousand years ago on a very basic scale@` known as pun-sai@` where it was the practice of growing single specimen trees in pots. These early specimens displayed sparse foliage and rugged@` gnarled trunks which often looked like animals@` dragons and birds. There are a great number of myths and legends surrounding Chinese bonsai@` and the grotesque or animal-like trunks and root formations are still highly prized today. Chinese bonsai come from the landscape of the imagination and images of fiery dragons and coiled serpents take far greater precedence over images of trees- so the two forms of this art are quite far apart. With Japan's adoption of many cultural trademarks of China - bonsai was also taken up@` introduced to Japan during the Kamakura period (1185 - 1333) by means of Zen Buddhism - which at this time was rapidly spreading around Asia. The exact time is debatable@` although it is possible that it had arrived in AD 1195 as there appears to be a reference to it in a Japanese scroll attributed to that period. Once bonsai was introduced into Japan@` the art was refined to an extent not yet approached in China. Over time@` the simple trees were not just confined to the Buddhist monks and their monasteries@` but also later were introduced to be representative of the aristocracy - a symbol of prestige and honour. The ideals and philosophy of bonsai were greatly changed over the years. For the Japanese@` bonsai represents a fusion of strong ancient beliefs with the Eastern philosophies of the harmony between man@` the soul and nature. In an ancient Japanese scroll written in Japan around the Kamakura period@` it is translated to say : "To appreciate and find pleasure in curiously curved potted trees is to love deformity". Whether this was intended as a positive or negative statement@` it leaves us to believe that growing dwarfed and twisted trees in containers was an accepted practice among the upper class of Japan by the Kamakura period. By the fourteenth century bonsai was indeed viewed as a highly refined art form@` meaning that it must have been an established practice many years before that time. Bonsai were brought indoors for display at special times by the 'Japanese elite' and became an important part of Japanese life by being displayed on specially designed shelves. http://www.bonsai-nbf.org/ National Bonsai Foundation Web site JAPANESE BONSAI COLLECTION CHINESE COLLECTION(なんか日本のと変わらないなあ) http://yonemura.co.jp/main/oversea/yunnan/enihaku/engeihaku4.htm 昆明世界園芸博 中国館 中国らしい盆栽、石組み、木などの盆養品の出展も多い。
剣道と似てるかな。江戸時代に興隆したとこなんか。 しかし、下のはちょっとどうかな。 http://www.bonsai.co.jp/ 盆栽は、日本で生まれ、今や世界中に広まっている芸術であり文化です。 『月刊近代盆栽』は世界一の内容と知名度を誇ります。 はじめての人から上級者まで、これ1冊で満足できる充実の内容が自慢。 親切でていねいな解説と、美しい盆栽の写真が詰まっています。 Born in Japan@` BONSAI is an art that is currently spreading throughout the world. The monthly magazine "KINDAI BONSAI" takes pride in having the best contents and popularity in the world. We are sure that the contents of this one publication can completely satisfy everyone@` from the beginner to the experienced bonsai person. It is full of well written explanations and photographs of beautiful bonsai. http://www.inh.co.jp/~hayasida/report20.html 日本庭園: 日本庭園の様式はイタリア、フランスなどの欧米の様式と異なり、独特のものです。様式を 決定する要素として、植物、気象、岩石、地形、その他の自然的要素、更に社会的、文化的、 歴史的、科学技術的な要素を挙げることができます。風景式の日本庭園は大別して、築山(つ きやま)、平庭(ひらにわ)、露地(ろじ、茶庭)の3つが挙げられますが、築山の構成要素の 1つに夕陽木(せきようぼく)があり、これには紅葉する広葉樹がふさわしく、西日をさえぎる 役目があり庭の西側に植えられます。(住まいの庭園技能講座:日本園芸協会) ここにカエデ、サクラ、ウメなどが選ばれます。カエデとは直接関係ありませんが、同文献に よれば、中国庭園の特徴として太湖石の活用があります。太湖石は石灰岩で質が軟らかく、風雨 により侵食され奇怪な形をしており、利用されるようになった、とあります。(杭州植物園) 川端康成「美しい日本の私」のなかに次の記述もあります。 「日本の庭園もまた大きい自然を象徴するものです。西洋の庭園が多くは均整に造られるのにく らべて、日本の庭園はたいてい不均整に造られますが、不均整は均整よりも、多くのもの、広い ものを象徴できるからでありませう。勿論その不均整は、日本人の繊細微妙な感性によって釣り 合ひが保たれての上であります。日本の造園ほど複雑、多趣、綿密、したがってむずかしい造園 法はありません。枯山水という岩や石を組み合わせるだけの法は、その石組みによって、そこに ない山や川、また大海の波の打ち寄せるさままでを現はします。 その凝縮を極めると、日本の盆栽になり、盆石となります。」
盆栽のルーツは中国の唐代の盆景だそうですが、日本では 何時頃から盆栽の文字が現れたんでしょうか? http://mentai.2ch.net/test/read.cgi?bbs=korea&key=961695039&st=711&to=711&nofirst=true では江戸時代からと書かれているのに?韓国が日本の直接なルーツの 筈なのになんで韓国では日本式に盆栽と表記するのか?700年の歴史と言いますが、 although it is possible that it had arrived in AD 1195 as there appears to be a reference to it in a Japanese scroll attributed to that period. 日本では既に800年の歴史がある模様。 >http://www.chion-in.or.jp/c_03/mite/page1.html >法然上人絵伝(国宝) >宗祖法然上人の絵伝であるが、その誕生から入寂に至る行状のほか、法語、消息、著述など >の思想もあらわし、さらに門弟の列伝、帰依者(天皇、公家、武家)の事蹟までをも含んで >四八巻に構成している。 >後伏見上皇の勅命で、比叡山功徳院の舜昌法印(知恩院九世)が徳治二年(一三〇七)から >十余年をかけて制作したと伝える。 時代合わせるの失敗しましたね。ひょっとすると一三〇七に合わせたのかもしれない。 なんで盆栽と表記するのかな〜〜〜〜。
>>690 >武芸新譜は現存しないとか、武芸図譜通志には前期と後期でempty-hand technique >called Kwonbopのイラストに差違があるとか、武備志のは直刀で武芸図譜通志のは >日本刀を使った図であるとか。全部読んでないけど目についたとこ転載。 訂正と追加。 武芸図譜通志には前期と後期でempty-hand technique called Kwonbopのイラストに 差違がある、これは間違い。Kwonbopが紀効新書のとは順序が違っていたり、イラスト が追加されたりしてるってことでした。失礼。それと、武備志のは直刀で武芸図譜通志 のは日本刀を使った図であるというのはa set of techniques called Yedo に関してのこと。 以下、http://members.aol.com/torm1358/dissertcritique.htmでの追加情報。 武芸諸諸は紀効新書のコピーで、しかも壬辰倭乱時にできた粗悪品とのこと。 大韓剣道サイトで絵図だけだとか何とか低評価だったのはこのことだったのかな。 For our purposes@` this reform movement gives us an insight into ChosOn military practises during the 18th century. As related above@` during the Hideyoshi invasion@` the ChosOn military obtained the then current Ming military manual the Chi-hsiao hsin-shu ( or Jixiao Xinshu. Pronounced Kikyo Sinso in Korean and can be translated into English as the New Text of Practical Tactics). This was copied by the ChosOn military and called the ★Muye Chebo. I noted that the quality of reproduction was low@` probably because it was produced during wartime@` and that as far as I can tell@` the sections on battlefield tactics and training found in the Ming original had been dropped. This manual was probably still the basis of military training in the 18th century. However@` before it had collapsed@` the Ming had produced another military manual called the Wubeich'i (there are others@` but this is considered the best and most influential. Indeed@` the modern Chinese army has recently reprinted in modern format all(?) the Ming and Ch'ing military manuals. The reprint runs to at least thirty volumes). Inevitably@` the ChosOn military obtained a copy of this manual@` possibly via the same dubious method they obtained the Chi-hsiao hsin-shu. I don't have the date with me@` but I think they may not have obtained the manual until the Ch'ing were victorious@` which might suggest that either Ming reminents supplied the book@` or a bribe was paid to Ch'ing officials (I may have read that this manual was suppressed by the Ch'ing@` but I can not be certain).
>>672-673 >朝鮮の剣法には壬辰倭乱以後に日本刀を取り入れて刀が曲がってきたとか >書いてあるね。朝鮮通信史の護衛兵の刀は曲がっているとか出てる。 >690 >the ChosOn forces probably obtained many katanas during the >long war and so these provided a ready supply of swords.
>>598 >ここすごい!有名なのかな?知らなかったよ。 非常に良質な日本情報を英独語で提供してくれていると思う。頭が下がる。 このSchauweckerと名乗るWebmasterはドイツ系かな。 http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e440.html This web site exists since July 2@` 1996. It is maintained by Stefan Schauwecker. It is updated on a daily basis. ・THE PURPOSE Schauwecker's Guide to Japan is a free online guide that offers information about traditional and contemporary Japan. links to other Japan related online resources. a forum for international communication. We want this site to be a starting point for online research on Japan for tourists@` students@` hobby cooks@` and everybody else. In addition@` we intend to promote inter cultural communication and understanding and hope to help reducing widespread ignorance. ・THE CONCEPT Our web site consists of several sections: This guide is available in English and German. Only the penfriend section is also available in Japanese. ・ ETC. This site is not related with any educational institution or government. Even though we have tried to make the information on this web site as accurate as possible@` there may exist some inaccuracies. ・Our Favorites http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e420.html 茶道 Chado@` the way of tea http://www.art.uiuc.edu/japanhouse/tea/mainTOC.html
>>667 > but many were also applied to horse. 韓国がホッケーは韓国オリジナルと言ってたけど、これのオリジンも 武芸図譜通知かもね。馬に対する拘りはかなりのものです。 韓国ホッケーの起源は馬の上に乗ってやるものと、このスレッドに ありました。所謂poloですね。イギリスpoloの起源はペルシアらしい ですけどね。 >>668 KyOngdangというのも流派の名前みたいですね。 http://members.aol.com/torm1358/KyOngDang.htm KyOng Dang is a Korean martial art that was developed in the 1960s. It was developed by one man and is based on a ChosOn military manual called the Muye Tobo T'ongji.The manual covers empty-hand@` sword@` spear@` and various other weapons techniques. KyOng Dang has tried to recreate all of these techniques@` ★except for those on a horse.★ >>668 Recently some of the techniques in this manual have been resurrected under the name of ★KyOngdang ★ (though@` unfortunately@` ★not those to do with the horse★).
For instance@` if one compares the original print of a pattern called ★ponkukkOm ★(see plate e)@` このponkukkOmというのは >>663 "Native Sword (★Pon'gukkom★) or "New Sword" (Shin'gom)@`to be carried on the waist like "Sharp Sword" (Yodo). Travelers says that the sword was invented and practiced by a Silla Hwarang@` Hwang Ch'ang. Pon'gukkomこれですね。 Hwang Ch'ang. が発明したと言われる新刀 です。この新刀で本国剣法を演じたと。★しかしどこにも本国剣法という 名が出てこない★。本国剣法というのももしかしたら、後世の造語かも。 >>668 The original print shows a medium-length curved blade@` such as a katana@` while the modern renderings opt for a★ Chinese style@` straight-bladed perfomance sword★ (Kim KwangsOk) and a very-long sword (changgOm) by the KyOngdang practitioners.
If this art has been handed down from Silla times@` then it would presumably would have been intended for use with a Chinese-style sword because the curved bladed sword only appeared after the Imjin War.
Kim@` then@` appears to be attempting to recreate the original form of the pattern.This would suggest that the sword arts had@` for a long while KyOng Dangの創始者のキムも矛盾に気付いていたようですね。新羅時代の 剣法なのに、日本刀を用いるのはおかしいと。我々日本人も変だなと 思いましたからねぇ。当たり前ですよね。双手剣も嘘でしょうね。
ここのサイト画像も載せて欲しいなぁ(see plate e)(see plates f & g ) とかあるけど。 because the curved bladed sword only appeared after the Imjin War. 曲がった刀が出てくるのも秀吉の侵攻以来だったんですね。 >Moreover@` Silla's neighboring country@` Japan (Wa)@` must have >received their "sword dance equipment" (sword >techniques/"samurai swords") from Hwang Ch'ang Rang and >yet this cannot be examined today. http://www.hwarangdo.com/hwarang2.htm このサイトではこんな無理な主張してるけどね。電波入ってます。
sections on Chinese and Japanese martial arts. これ見てみたいですね。chedokkOmや The empty-hand techniques@` called kwonbOp@`は戚継光(the Ming general Yi Yongson) の紀效新書ですね。he empty-hand techniques・・これは片手剣のこと かな?紀效新書の流れをくむ事が分りますね。then they probably replaced subak@`subakって何ですか?そもそも有用な武術があっ たら、中国に学ぶ事もないし、とっかえる事もないでしょうに。 While waegOm represents the techniques the Japanese samurai used during the Imjin war. waegOm は漢字だとどうなりますかね?武芸図譜通知に倭の刀法が出ている のか。参考文献目録もあるらしいから、どんな日本の書物を参考にしたか くらい分る筈です。
Plate I further illustrates the problems of interpretation of the manual. This page@` from the Seoul' university's kyOngdang club's manual@` gives the original Chinese (bottom right)@` the original mixed script (bottom left)@` and the modern interpretation (top)@` which is@` incidentally@` different from both Sim UsOng's and Kim's books. This further confuses attempts to interpret the Muye tobo T'ongji. うーん。なんか中国武術の解釈も原本から変えてるみたいですね。 中国武術に勝手な解釈入れてウリナラのものにしようというわけか。 武芸図譜通知ですでにその努力が払われたのかもしれない。 the original Chinese →紀效新書、the original mixed script → 武芸図譜通知 the modern interpretationこれが復刻版か?
Sim UsOng'・・・・この人は誰でしょう?Kimこの人はKyOng Dangの人。
As well as written explanations@` the Muye Tobo T'ongji also gives two types of diagrams for the major patterns. Examples can be seen in plates J and K. Plate J illustrates the kwonbOp empty-hand techniques. As well as the picture representations@` the Chinese names of the moves are also given in a separate diagram. Plate K shows a pattern using a Chinese halberd. 図にも混乱があるんだって。ちょっとこれが一番訳しにくい。分らない。 紀效新書と武芸図譜通知を言ってるのかな?Plate Jはthe kwonbOp empty-hand techniques.で動きにも中国名が与えられている? Plate K では中国式のおのやりを使っている? 紀效新書の図に関して二つの解釈の図を用意した?どなたかわかる方 いらっしゃいませんでしょうか?
http://members.aol.com/torm1358/KyOngDang.htm even a cursory glance at the illustrations@` that are ★inevitably reprinted@`★ shows that the techniques described in the manual ★ bear no relationship ★to the contemporary martial art under discussion. The manual was ★reprinted in a modern format@`★ probably during the 1970s@` and it was probably after this that the various martial arts in Korea began to take an active interest in the techniques described in the manual. During the 1970s and 1980s several Komdo groups also began to turn to this manual for inspiration/confirmation of that style's ancient origins. 原本からかなり可能性ありますね。だから最終的には原本 を突き詰めてみないといけないかも。もしかしてなかったりして?? このサイトの人はかなり冷静ですね。興味半分にやってる外人 って感じ。 (though still heavily showing its Japanese origins). なんて言ってるし。
>東國輿地勝覧 (復刻版が1912かな)には新羅人黄窓が剣舞をえさに百済王を刺したので、 >百済人は彼を殺した。新羅人は悲しんでその顔姿を型どって仮面を作って被って剣舞を >踊ったと記す。それが今も伝えられている。倭が新羅と隣接しているから剣技と剣舞が >伝えられた。<武藝圖譜通志>とか<東京雑技(東京雜記)>は<東国輿地勝覽>を引用したそ >うであるが、 <東国輿地勝覽>はどういう文献を参考にしたか明らかにしなかった。 >>663 I have not been able to find the story about Hwang Ch'ang in any other source. http://www.hwarangdo.com/hwarang2.htm Hwang Ch'angがが新刀を発明した事、剣舞を踊って、百済の王を刺した話、 Hwang Ch'ang の話は武芸図譜通知にしかないらしい。 >東國輿地勝覧 (復刻版が1912かな)には新羅人黄窓が剣舞をえさに百済王を刺したので、 >百済人は彼を殺した。新羅人は悲しんでその顔姿を型どって仮面を作って被って剣舞を >踊ったと記す。それが今も伝えられている。
東國輿地勝覧→ 武藝圖譜通志で適当に名前を付けて花朗徒を作ったのかな。 黄窓= Hwang Ch'angだとすると、全く同じ話であって、 I have not been able to find the story about Hwang Ch'ang in any other source. でもなさそうなんですが。 武藝圖譜通志→東國輿地勝覧 (復刻版1912)なんて可能性もありますけど。 665の情報ってどこから持って来たんですか?大韓剣道協会(連盟?)では剣舞があっ て、日本の雅学に影響を与えたとなってるけど。
>>666 The Jixiao Xinshu これが紀效新書(きこうしんしょ) (the Ming General)Qi Jiquang これが戚 継光(せきけいこう) か。日本語の発音と全然違いますね。中国発音かな? history suggests that the Koreans acquired the document by dubious means during the latter stages of the Imjin War (1592-1598) dubious疑わしい?どういう意味っすかね。どうやって獲得したか明瞭じゃないって意味 かな。
(It is doubtful that the Ming would have freely given up such an important military document to the Koreans@` especially when a mere 36 years later@` in 1636@` the Ch'ing (Manchu) Chinese forced the capitulation of King Injo and demanded Korean troops to assist in the subjugation of the Ming.)
?読解力不足。満州族の手下になった朝鮮だったら、紀效新書を教える事はなかっただ ろう?
The Sok Pyungjang Tosul was probably based on a copy of the Jixiao Xinshu@`
The Sok Pyungjang Tosul これって武芸諸諸?ですかね?発音が全然違うっ ぽいけど。 The Sok Pyungjang Tosul was probably based on a copy of the Jixiao Xinshu@` while the Muye Tobo T'ongji@` composed in 1790 and containing sections on armed and unarmed combat@` as well as cavalry and infantry tactics@` is a copy of the Sok Pyungjang Tosul.� これ見る限り武芸図譜通知も武芸諸諸?のコピーみたい。 >The sword forms used in modern Haedong Kumdo were gleaned from >those contained within the Muye Tobo T'ongji. 毎度ですけど、紀效新書の倭寇の刀法が鍵握ってるね。
>>738 >sections on Chinese and Japanese martial arts. >これ見てみたいですね。chedokkOmや The empty-hand >techniques@` called kwonbOp@`は戚継光(the Ming general Yi Yongson) >の紀效新書ですね。he empty-hand techniques・・これは片手剣のこと >かな?紀效新書の流れをくむ事が分りますね。
the chedokkOm was one of the techniques brought by the Ming general Yi Yongson during the Imjin War. このthe Ming general Yi Yongsonってのは文禄の役(1592)で兄弟で活躍した 明の将軍、李如松(兄)か李如栢(弟)のことじゃないですかねえ。紀效新書 (1561or1595年) の戚繼光(威継光)(1528?-1588?異説有り) ではないですよ。 文禄の役の当時にはもう生きてませんから。chedokkOmってchedok剣か、何 だろねえ。>>309『紀效新書』の著者威継光が1561年に猿飛陰流目録(傳授秘 法之書)を入手し、茅元儀がその目録(一部を?)『武備志』(1621)に記載した。 猿の刀操図(7匹の猿)。 ってことしか未だに我々は知らないね。 The empty-hand techniques@` called kwonbOp@` are also based upon Chinese techniques. このempty-hand techniques@` called kwonbOpってのは拳法という空手技法の ことでは?つまりkwonbOpとは拳法。GumbopとかKumbopとかKombopなら剣法ね。 例えば、http://www.hwarangdo.com/hrd1.htmでは the secret ancient Hwarang combat skills called Um Yang Kwon ★陰陽拳.
>>738 >then they probably replaced subak@`subakって何ですか? >そもそも有用な武術があったら、中国に学ぶ事もないし、とっかえる事 >もないでしょうに。
高麗時代のsubak (手拍 or手縛 )で拳法なのか剣法なのかも本当は分かって ないみたいですね。多くのサイトでは漢字からテッキョンの前身の拳法だと 推測してるみたいだけど。 http://members.aol.com/torm1358/dissert.htm#Muye%20tobo%20t'ongji As to the martial arts of the time@` little is know. The official records of King Uijong (1146-1170) mentions a martial art called subak (手拍 or手縛 ).★ However@` we do not know much about the art; whether it was predominately a weapons art@` or an empty-hand art. ★ Certainly@` the interval between this reference and the demise of the dynasty is great. Moreover@` some writers have suggested that the Mongols suppressed KoryO's military techniques and that the old skills were lost.8 They argue that subak was mostly forgotten and only practised by a few in 'secret'.
>While waegOm represents the techniques the Japanese samurai used >during the Imjin war. >waegOm は漢字だとどうなりますかね?武芸図譜通知に倭の刀法が出ている >のか。参考文献目録もあるらしいから、どんな日本の書物を参考にしたか >くらい分る筈です。
>>739 武芸図譜通志には元々、中国語(つまり漢文のみ)のとハングル中国語混合文 の2通りがあったのではないですかねえ?だからOriginalと書いてるのでは? 現代版は何回か出版されてるようで、例えば http://members.aol.com/torm1358/KyOngDang.htmでは、 The manual was reprinted in a modern format@` probably during the 1970s 1970年代出版したようだし、最近のでは同志社大の蔵書の武藝圖譜通志 は [ソウル] : 弘文閣@` 1990.1 772@` 5p ; 26cm 本文言語 中国語 朝鮮語 です。Sim UsOngの本とKim本はどちらも現代版だと思う。この現代版の2つでも 取り上げてるページに差違があって、こうしたことが、武芸図譜通志の解釈を ますます混乱させてる、ってことかな。さらには武芸図譜通志自体のイラスト にもkwonbOpをempty-handにしたり、Chinese halberdにしたりの混乱があるって ことではないでしょうか。
>>740 >ファン→Hwang? 窓→Ch'ang? A modified form of the McCune-Reishauer system for romanizing Korean words and names だと、hwang 黄 ch'ang 窓ですから、 Hwang Ch'angは黄窓でいいみたいです。 >665の情報ってどこから持って来たんですか? 大韓剣道協会からですよ。