Is there any point in speaking and hearing English perfectly? If they can read and write English@` I don't think there will be any problem communicating with people.
Or do you have some problem with associating with deaf people?
I don't think there is any point having ability to speak and hear English.
What do scientists do? They read and communicate mostly with papers. I don't think there is any point having ability to explain complicated formula in English. Even if you could do them@` most of people hearing you wouldn't understand it.
>62 Naushika: Saying that scientists mostly communicate through papers might be partially true@` but to claim that there is no point in being able to properly speak and write in English is just preposterous.
I am currently conducting some research in physiology@` and I can assure you that without any skills as such@` the project would be getting nowhere. People do not do research by themselves@` nor do they only communicate with other researchers from the outside. Teams of researchers work together on one project@` and I couldn't imagine how in the world they would be able to discuss a topic without the adequate level of spoken English. True@` some studies may become complicated@` but to the appropriate listener@` all would be understood. Even at seminars@` the audience is not just a group of people chosen at random@` but rather an assembly of those interested in the field.
Thus@` your allegations above are without any cogent reasoning.I apologize if this has nothing to do with this thread@` but I was not prepared to let this one go. In any case@` I'd appreciate it if you did not speak as though you knew it all. Regards.
> Etincelle I understand importance of English in science field\ especially ability to explain things.
And again@` I do not underestimate the power of ability to speak and hear. In laboratery@` it would be essential to understand basic English. If you are working under team@` oral communication in English would be essential. If you're to report your reserch to a study group@` you might need to discuss with your collegue.
However speaking and hearing English in science is not perticularly as important as@` say@` marketing or BA.
The reason is fairly obvious. In science@` there is universal language called mathematics. If you can't even talk basic English@` that would be a problem@` but we are not even talking about these cases@` since we (or I?) are assuming the person has quite good writing skill. Especially@` this is true@` when a person is working in Japan.
If you read my post as if I knew everything@` then that's your problem. As for reasoning@` you just admitted in your post that scientist mostly communicate with papers. By attacking my reasoning@` you're contradicting your post itself.
It is no fun. He is a guy suffering from persecution mania. He post his idea and just keep insisting on it. You would not benefit from trying to communicate with this guy...sad guy.
>66 Your post is absurd. Your post does not have any supporting evidence nor logic about why it is essential for scientists to have special English speaking and hearing skills. What you have just wrote is that scientists need basic speaking and hearing skill. I'm not argueing about this point@` if you notice. The point@` argueing is that@` scientist needs ability to speak and hear English above basic level. There is no doubt that advanced hearing speaking is an advantage@` but it seems that those skills are not essential.
>67 Troll number 9 Internet psycologist
Thank you@` psycologist@` for the free councelling. You must be firly well-known psycologist@` if you can tell my poersonal mental disorder through internet.
Troll number 2. "me-too". Long time no see. I heard there are many "me-too" trolls in Japanese message board@` but I wasn't expecting to see you so soon. You must be very glad to find big buddy Etincell.
> Etincella. Well said! I have not seen such a logical allegation like yours here on this BBS. And it surely makes sense to me.
> Nausika-San Of course@` like you say@` it is not so important to be always perfect about your English@` grammatically. But it has to be understandable at least. Further more@` people do forgive you to make some minor mistakes in your English@` but they@` most of the time@` expect you to make some kind of efforts to be better than now. (It is based on my own experience while I was in junior high in an English speaking country.)
I guess it is a similar feeling that we Japanese people sometime feel toward a foreign student studying Japanese language in Japan. It is OK to make some mistakes in the beginning of his stay in Japan. But people expect him to@` at least@` try to learn it correct. (For his/her own good.)
If Nausika-san really think it is completely unimportant to be able to speak good English@` I could be lost in confusion that why you keep writing here in English. To show off? To improve it?
Anyway@` let’s grow up! (this is including for myself..) If you can not accept the truth that there are many different opinion in the world@` you are not qualified to be here@` I guess.
I hope I do not sound too offensive. (or too long.)
>69 >About grammar. Where did I talk about grammar? SCIENTIST NEED GOOD WRITING SKILLS. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY NECCESSARY. And I AM NOT BLOODY SCIENTIST. I AM NOT USING MY *COUGH* F*CKING *COUGH* EXPERIENCES AS AN EXAMPLE.We are talking about hearing and speaking skills of scientist. In this discussion@` it is already agreed that good writing skill is neccessary for scientist. The question is whether good hearing and speaking skill is needed or not.
I'm not argueing whether I should study hearing and speaking skills or not. I am not scientist and I have decent hearing and speaking skills neccessary to discuss topics of economics.
Could you please stay on topic?
And it is still interesting to know your own opinion. Those who only type "I agree with you completely" is known as "me-too". Those people are not interesting to my eyes and I don't think they are contributing to discussions.
>About the reason why I am writing here. The reason why I'm typing it here is that my university computer doesn't have Japanese language kit which is neccesary to type Japanese. Some complained typing in Romaji@` so I'm writing here in English. And I'm interested in some polical opinion of Japanese. I usually post message in English MB@` but those MB are mostly occupied by Americans. I sometimes wonder Japanese opinion of some interesting topics in that board. And no@` I'm not writing here to improve my English skills.
>About opinion of other people I already know that other people have different opinions. That is why I'm posting messages here to see opinion of other people and to get new knowledges.
For example@` would Etincella have wrote that message@` if I weren't posting message in this board? The answer is probably "no". His post obviously missed what is argued in this thread@` but it's still interesting to know opinion about scientist who is probably studying in US. My reply to his post was that "your post missed what is argued@` or otherwise your post is absurd". I don't think I put his post down wrongly nor insulted his intelligence.
At last and least;)@` I must admit that I am argumentitive. Recently I even had a discussion about whether 1+1=2 is an axiom or not. The discussion was still interesting for me and got many new knowledges like proof of 1+1=2 etc.etc.
If you aren't interested in discussions@` then you need not to reply.
you didn't take TOEFL? cause you got into college from american high school? well@` i think you are lying i moved here when i was 14@` and i went to high school here@` just like you did but@` when i applied for college@` i needed to take TOEFL even i had 1200 on SAT and GPA of 3.8 i got accepted from 6 major Universities ALL OF THEM required my TOEFL score
maybe you don't need a TOEFL score@` if you are going to community college or something LOL